Thank you, Fritz, finally someone who makes sense. To criticize the Coast Guard for flying because they’re not on a rescue mission just shows ignorance and arrogance. To commend these guys in any way shows the same ignorance and arrogance. They say they are experienced, but doesn’t that mean knowing when weather conditions are such that disaster is likely and knowing how to self-rescue when things go wrong? Going out in heavy weather to test your abilities is fine – so long as you go prepared to deal with the worst scenario without risking other lives. Maybe that means waiting until there is a fully supported race like the Tybee or other distance event where there are chase boats and other competitors nearby. Yes, the Coast Guard trains for things like this, and I know that like soldiers, firefighters and mountain SAR professionals, they love going out in tough conditions, but to use them as part of your bag of rescue tricks is irresponsible beyond belief and shows a complete disregard for the well being of others. I think these guys should get out their checkbooks and pay the Coast Guard for saving them. To beg for help finding their busted little boat is akin to tatooing a big 'L' on thier foreheads.

I just watched the report, and found it to be totally ridicules and very biased by the TV reporter and the lady that was trying to send a message to the sailors. I agree that this type of coverage is not what the sport needs.

All I can say is that I hope that the reporter or the lady trying to send a message don’t need any assistance from the Coast Guard if they are complaining about how much it cost.

The Skier
1973 H16

MauganH17,

I find your comments disgraceful.... With veiws like this I doupt that you are an experinced sailor at all.

I am 28yrs old and have sailed for more than 20 years. I have raced many times in 30 knots, sometimes gusting to 42 and have experienced a 60 knot squall on a beach cat on a lake. When the 60 knoter hit I need not say I lasted less seconds than you can count on one hand and washed up on the shore of the very small lake with my tail between my legs.

Just how comfortable were you in these 30 knoters and was it realy 30 knots. I stongly consider staying on shore when it blows 25+ and that is on the sheltered waters of Botany Bay (Australia) with support boats. This weather is boat breaking and crew injuring. In 25+ gusts can be much stronger.

I have been caught in a few life thretening situations including being traped under my boat after pitchpoling in a race where the wind increased to 30 knots sustained and gusts of upto 42 knots. This realy made me re think what I do on the water and puts sailing and your life in real perspective.

Going off shore in anything over 20 you must take into acount the possabilaties of any breakage including new equiptment. You also must be VERY confident in your ability to rescue yourself as help is not always at hand and a bad situation can go to worse quicker than help can arrive. For example take the tragic loss of one of the Tornado competitors at last years Princess Sophia Trophy who drowed under his trampoline before help could arrive.

It is great to explore ones limits but do so in a safe manner with the appropriate safty equiptment. A momentary thrill is not worth your life or that of others.

Sorry about the harsh criticism, but you are baiting us.

Stay safe and live for your next thrill.

not to change the subject, but, did anyone find the boat? (may have aleady been mentioned but I couldn't read all 60 replies!)

I've got to say, I've got mixed feelings on this whole story. First, wind is not the primary factor in boats breaking, it's normally the sea state. Also, I've read anywhere from 20 to 50 knots of wind from the different sources. Forget what the news media reports. They are selling a story. By the time the 2 sailors are old and gray, the story will have taken place in 75 knots. I'll take the CG's word for it.

With that said, I wouldn't think twice about sailing in 20-25. I've sailed in over 30 by choice, albeit in protected water within eyesight of a yacht club. I don't take issue with these 2 testing their abilities. The same way I don't take issue with Worrell sailors. I take extreme issue with their lack of safety gear. Why are people applauding them because they had flares and a cell phone. Where was their GPS so they could give their location accurately. Where was their VHF so they could broadcast their need of assistance and advise traffic on the shipping lanes of their situation.

The CG is there and paid to do what they did. It probably won't go down as the ultimate save in any of their careers. It takes a certain type of person to be in SAR type jobs. I'm sure they were fine with it.

The question that keeps nagging at me is: WHY would anyone want to voluntarily go out in winds that strong? What is the point? Maugan seems to be looking for the thrill of speed. However, as experts have said on this forum before, beach cats have a maximum hull speed and they cannot go faster, no matter how much more wind you have. And when the wind is too strong to hold the boat down, you probably are actually going slower than the maximum speed of which the boat is capable. And if you load more people (weight) on the boat to hold it down, the stress will probably break your rig.

So what's the point of the whole thing? It does not so much test the limits of the sailors' abilities as it tests the limits of the boat and teaches you how far you can push it before it breaks. And that is an expensive, potentially dangerous test.

Mary,

Sailing 1000 miles up the coast in a beachcat is dangerous. Climbing Mt. Everest is dangerous. Sky diving is dangerous. I don't know about the desire for speed being the only factor. As you rightfully pointed out, the boat speed will max out. You can probably get to the boat's hull speed in a lot less wind.

It's the rush. It has more to do with being in the situation where nothing is guaranteed. Wind and water noises confusing your senses. Shaking off the spray just in time to regain your eyesight to quickly ease the traveler. Launching off of waves. Adrenaline pumping, hyper focused on keeping the boat in a groove and feeling how loaded up the boat is.

Is it prudent? No. Of course not.

Is it fun? Absolutely.

Thanks for the clarification. I can relate. When I was a teenager, friends and I had access to a Dragon, which is designed for REALLY heavy-air sailing on the North Sea, and when we got a rare day on Lake Erie with a lot of wind, we would take the Dragon out and see how far we could bury the lee rail. VERY exciting! But we knew the boat could not possibly capsize, so I guess that doesn't count.

I was told the images were not loading, so I posting as attachments instead.
First one is of the Light Tower 15 miles off Va Beach Oceanfront.

Tracie

This one is of the Third Island of the Cheasapeake Bay Bridge Tunell.

More like the thrill of survival. I'd want to do it just to know that I could. If I failed, then at least I know that I gave it my best shot, and couldn't do it. I'm sorry if that challenge doesn't appeal to you people, and being called "disgraceful" for having an adventurous spirit is somewhat laughable.

"I've sailed for 20 years blah blah blah blah..."

I hear this crap from everyone. I've sailed for ... let see... 23 minus 13... 10 years, so roughly half of what you've been experienced to. Who cares. We could go into long digressions about whose sailing dick is bigger, but when it comes down to the decision as to whether or not to sail that day, its up to me, not all you people.

I'll leave it at that.

As for the comment that said mentioned that I was criticising the CG for flying around. Thats ludicrous. I was merely pointing out the error in logic when people say that, to go rescue these guys it cost $18,000... when I'd wager to say that it costs that to operate the chopper any other day of the week.

I swear, trying to get my point across to some of you is like yelling at a mango tree. Why don't we just agree that we have differring opinions and move on, because its quite apparent that the two sides of this arguement are entrenched.

"The thrill of survival" I am a recovering dumbass myself having survived a close encounter with hurricane Emily in 1987. There is nothing thrilling about it. Terrifying is more like it. The thought of sailing a beach cat alone in a very strong offshore winds is chilling to me. Just consider the litterally hundreds of failures that could prevent you from sailing back upwind to shore. Something as small as a ring ding could end your life.

That is a truly ingnorant remark.

One of the few positive things to come of this event is the CG got to practice a real rescue close to home and thank God they had guzzled down copious amounts of fuel training on many summer days before they had to go out in marginal conditions. The sailors' choice to go out in big wind is theirs alone, this is true. But by going out alone with only a cell phone and flairs as their safety net implies they were ready to put others lives at risk and that's where I take issue. The thrill of speed and ultra-challenging conditions appeals to many of us. It certainly appeals to me. Memories of taking on those challenges are my most vivid and I'm looking forward to my next opportunity to sail in big wind or ski deep snow in the back country. However, going into any situation like that alone with the expectation of someone else risking their life to save you is the ultimate act of selfishness. It sounds like these sailors used the term "experienced" a little too loosely. Had they been experienced they would not have gone out in that weather so unprepared.

way to take a remark totally out of context.

Bye.

The general consensus seems to be that these guys were experienced sailors who just had some unfortunate equipment failures. I'm not so sure I believe that.

I recently had the pleasure of breaking both my boards in similar conditions, although I was closer in to shore and thus the seas were lower. I found that the boat was more controllable and stayed flatter without the boards than with. Although the boat crabbed a good bit, I was able to finish the last three legs of an ACAC course.

Not that I consider myself an experienced sailor. I just disagree that the breaking of the boards is what caused the survival situation. More likely these guys were out of control from the beginning, and didn't admit it to themselves until they started breaking stuff.

I think what everyone has failed to realize is that would they have been on a Hobie, we wouldn't even be having this debat.

I addmitt it…I too have done participated in some rather “less than brilliant decision making”…and have so far…live to tell the tale…thanks to the grace of God…If anyone on this forum denies they have fit into this category at one time or another, they are lying to themselves.

Some observations…read into them as you wish…

1) Twenty years experience might mean:
A) Twenty years sailing all types of conditions from small lakes to open ocean, wind strengths from dead calm to hurricane force, in dinghies to Trans-Atlantic racers.
B) Twenty years sailing in a local 20-acre lake on an aqua cat.

One can have 20 years experience, or have one years experience 20 times.

2) How does one gain experience? By doing things…if you have not done something…you are not experienced at it. If one wishes to survive the experience it would be prudent to take small steps in the direction one wants to go rather than jumping in over ones head.
3) Just because you personally are not comfortable or equipped for a certain set of conditions, doesn’t mean the guy next to you is equally ill equipped. (They are several windsurfers that sail “JAWS” on Maui at 80 foot up the face, I can’t/won’t do it, you probably can’t/won’t do it either…but does that mean the local crew out there that have been doing it for years need to stop because of our limitations?
4) Choose the proper equipment for the job…If no production catamaran is designed to endure sustained winds of above a certain force, you are going to have to find something that was designed for that kind of wind like a very small sailboard/sail (less than 3sq/mt{32 sq/ft.}sail for 35 + sustained winds...how much sail does their cat have?), and be a very experienced rider. Or you will have to design your own cat, and hope that you will have conditions a couple times a year that justify the expense of building such a creature.
5) If you are going out in offshore winds make sure the “other side” is considerably less than a couple of thousand miles away,. At least you can blow to the other side before you die of exposure/drown /starve to death.
6) If we were really honest, one would have to admit the kind of personality that would gravitate to search and rescue duty in the Coast Guard has a little more in common with the adrenaline junkies they rescue than most would care to admit. Yes it is an important, serious job…but how many 19 year olds enlist because it is an “important and serious job”…I lived next door to a Coast Guard barracks for several years…they were really good guys…but they are human…I could tell some interesting true stories about their off duty exploits…just as foolish as sailing a outmatched beach cat in overpowering/offshore/open ocean conditions.

For what it’s worth…

Bob

can someone just please please please LOCK this thread. It's ridiculous. M17 has a point, so does every one else. Guys are OK, CG got some good real world experiance, and everyone still is sipping tea. There are SO many other things to talk about....

yes please. My delete key is running ill from all the hate mail I've been receiving lately. You would have thought I was a child molester or something.

People actually take the time to hate mail you?

Dear God, arn't there more important things to do? Like SAILING?