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Re: Nationals Format [Re: Pirate] #261839
07/30/13 01:44 AM
07/30/13 01:44 AM

T
thricebitten
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Hi all,

my original post was shortest time scale possible, just to start the conversation. I think it should be longer, maybe 2 1/2 days for Sloops and then Cats. With the option to sail classes concurrently if blown out on other days.

I intentionaly, put the Cat rigs last as that gives largest number guaranteed at final night presentation, most spinnaker boats would be there anyway as they sail other formats, so if you had a couple of sloops that didn't hang around so be it, that happens anyway at times.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #261847
07/30/13 05:09 AM
07/30/13 05:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
Port Vincent, SA
Hack Offline
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Hack  Offline
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Posts: 70
Port Vincent, SA
Thanks for the information.

As a newcomer, I don't want to stick my nose in too far too early, but in my experience in all sorts of football clubs, basketball clubs, various committees, and my line of work I have found that usually trying to please too many people is often (almost always) counterproductive.

By nature I embrace change and innovation, but in this instance I think that altering the 'tried & true' will actually marginalise/segregate some competitors. It opens up the event to be perceived as 'more hassle than it's worth' or 'Mickey mouse' for many who are only thinking about coming.

I tend to agree with Peter's comments. The idea is not bad, just not suited to a 'Nationals' format, perhaps a '3 day event' outside of the Nats?



Hack

'Goodnight Nurse'
#1769
&
#1636
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #261867
07/30/13 04:48 PM
07/30/13 04:48 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 108
Port Hedland
Beckit 1824 Offline
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Beckit 1824  Offline
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Posts: 108
Port Hedland
Gents,
From my point of view, I think we need to access the fundamentals of what we are trying to achieve and be concious of the demographics of all our members. We have new mozzie sailors, stalwarts, young sailors learning, old sailors returning to sailing, social sailors, cat, sloop, +/- spinnaker and keen racers.

To cater for all of the above and encourage large fleet numbers, I think we should maximise sailing opportunities for all. Once we get up to 100 boats at a Nationals perhaps then we can break it up more.

Luke

Re: Nationals Format [Re: Beckit 1824] #261877
07/31/13 02:00 AM
07/31/13 02:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
Tim_Mozzie Offline
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Tim_Mozzie  Offline
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Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
The suggestion is to put the two fleets back together, not break them up.

We currently have around 10 sloops and 22 cats on average. The idea is to have 20 sloops and maybe 30 cats racing by putting them together.

Many cat sailors own jibs, and all sloops can be sailed cat rigged (some might let the crew have a go at skippering for a change).

Some of the cat-sailors family members who are usually on the beach would be able to get out in the racing for the sloop part of the event.

It is a radical idea, and it needs a lot of thought, but it's been suggested because there are a lot of good reasons for it. Principally getting more people involved, and more boats at the start lines in the National titles - without requiring any extra boats.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
Re: Nationals Format [Re: Tim_Mozzie] #261884
07/31/13 05:42 AM
07/31/13 05:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 104
gold coast
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fast energy Offline
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Posts: 104
gold coast
hi all
is it not best to have all boats on the start line at once
so have the nationals with 5 days racing with plenty of races so the most consistent sailor wins
the vyc handicap rating works out the results
or is that not what the handicap is about
because in am from queensland I would to sail (race) as much as possible
it would be hard for me to wait for 2 days a change of class and then wait for presentation
I think if you could 50 boats on a start line that would be the best thing for this class
this is just my opinion


Brett Kelly
Fast Energy
Gold Coast
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #261919
07/31/13 04:43 PM
07/31/13 04:43 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
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the hobie 16 nationals do this, they have youth class and womens in the first 3 days, then masters and grand masters, in the next 3 days , then the open which has over 70+ boats on the start line, how do i know? my brother was there cross the whole fleet on port on the start line 2 years ago and got a trophy for it.

Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #261940
08/01/13 07:21 AM
08/01/13 07:21 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 92
South Oz
Phillip Offline
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Phillip  Offline
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Posts: 92
South Oz
I am really encouraged by the continued topic of discussion that was first mentioned at the 2013 AGM. I aired my concern then because I only had one boat, not three. So I have undertaken a project to get another. Might have two ready for the three-way nationals (or 4 or 5 or whatever) when they are mooted.


Tortured ply is clearly beautiful.
Mozzie Aldebaran VI
1827
Re: Nationals Format [Re: fast energy] #261960
08/01/13 09:07 PM
08/01/13 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
Tim_Mozzie Offline
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East Gippsland, Australia
Quote
so have the nationals with 5 days racing with plenty of races so the most consistent sailor wins
the vyc handicap rating works out the results


The Mosquito class would never do that. It would make the Titles results dependent on some arbitrary set of yardsticks which the class has no control over.

Titles should be decided on the water, not back in the office, by the number-crunchers.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263146
09/03/13 04:22 PM
09/03/13 04:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 50
Brisvegas | QLD
drew_mac Offline
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Brisvegas | QLD
Hi,

I like the idea.
The sequence of rigs / races probably matters.

I would sail the spinnaker either one up or two.
Then my youngest would probably join for a sloop run.
Then the cat section on my own and yes Hamish could have a run at the cat on his own with a wish for light winds.
Sure....why not...

Sure I understand Darryn's comments about travelling for a short few days.
I also get it may not work for all.

The idea of all in at once from Brett would be a sight but you would have to choose one rig and only race that.

Phillip's idea of having multiple boats is a real winner.
That may make second hand boat value go up, retention of boats by the fleet or more new builds.

We will all need double decker trailers as well.

Lets keep talking about it.


Drew....TOAST..1816....furr_ball..1635
Re: Nationals Format [Re: drew_mac] #263214
09/05/13 02:57 AM
09/05/13 02:57 AM

T
thricebitten
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thricebitten
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T



It's all about getting and in the long term keeping more boats on the water in each rig cool . After all who wants to sail a Nationals with less than 10 boats in it frown , when there are boats sailing at the same time in other rig formats that you could be racing against smile . To me holding the Nationals for each rig variety on different days can only increase fleet numbers and that has to be good grin .

As for worrying about pot hunters sick you could have a rule that you can only win one National Title if that makes people feel better cry.

Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263367
09/08/13 11:08 AM
09/08/13 11:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
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Darryn Offline
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I think this is more of an attempt to increase the number of boats that use a spinnaker then to increase Nationals numbers.

The spinnaker has been around for a long time, those who wanted one have had plenty of opportunity to get one but most haven't.
Darryn
Bullet
1782

Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263378
09/08/13 05:25 PM
09/08/13 05:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 432
McCrae Y.C. Mornington Peninsu...
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Simon C Offline
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Simon C  Offline
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Posts: 432
McCrae Y.C. Mornington Peninsu...
Thought I'd put up a poll to see who's got a kite for their Mozzy... next thread up. Cheers,


Simon
Taipan AUS341
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263395
09/08/13 09:53 PM
09/08/13 09:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
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Darryn Offline
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Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
I like the poll, good idea. Nationals numbers and home club also give a good idea of what is going on. Spinnaker uptake seems centered at GLYC were it was developed.
Darryn
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Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263401
09/09/13 12:27 AM
09/09/13 12:27 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 416
Matt_Stone Offline
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Not really darryn,
There are a few at rye now and somers, and QLD will have 7 with kites in the next few months.

Matt

Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263402
09/09/13 12:37 AM
09/09/13 12:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 432
McCrae Y.C. Mornington Peninsu...
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Simon C Offline
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Posts: 432
McCrae Y.C. Mornington Peninsu...
And McCrae, and Sugarloaf.

Cheers


Simon
Taipan AUS341
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263403
09/09/13 03:31 AM
09/09/13 03:31 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 80
Rye, Victoria
air_apparent Offline
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Rye, Victoria
4 of the five mosses at rye have kites although we are losing luke to NSW next week but there are more mossies an the way to Rye...


Gordon Hyde
Air Apparent
1520
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263442
09/09/13 03:58 PM
09/09/13 03:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 81
To windward of you!
Sixth Element Offline
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Sixth Element  Offline
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Posts: 81
To windward of you!
we've got 3 of 4 regular mossies at Barmera running around with kites. and Port Vincent's new fleet has 3 i think.


"Sixth Element"
1782 MK2 w/spinnaker.
Lake Bonney Y.C.
National Sec. / S.A President / S.A Measurer / Commodore LBYC
Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263558
09/11/13 01:15 AM
09/11/13 01:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Lake Boga ,Victoria
GarryJ Offline
stranger
GarryJ  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 19
Lake Boga ,Victoria
lake Boga has 2 Mossies with kites now


Garry J
Beartalk 1785
Re: Nationals Format [Re: Darryn] #263560
09/11/13 04:16 AM
09/11/13 04:16 AM

T
thricebitten
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thricebitten
Unregistered
T



Originally Posted by Darryn

I think this is more of an attempt to increase the number of boats that use a spinnaker then to increase Nationals numbers.

The spinnaker has been around for a long time, those who wanted one have had plenty of opportunity to get one but most haven't.
Darryn
Bullet
1782


Geez I have been a bit busy lately (had a great sail against Nick both of us with spinnakers last Sunday) so haven't been on the forum for a bit, but I can't let a blatantly incorrect statement like this go with out comment.

As can be seen in posts since Darryn's quoted above, there are Spinnaker Mossies all over the place and for many of the newer Mossie sailors it's one of the reasons they are getting in to the class, not all currently have spinnakers but many aspire to. Spinnakers aren't for everybody, but that is the great thing about Mossies, everybody has a choice of what rig they want to sail.

In contrast to Darryn's assumption, I have raised this topic to try and increase the number of Sloop rigged Mosquito's sailing, as at the last Nationals where all rigs sailed (the first ever spinnaker Nats) there where more Spinnaker rigged Mossies than Sloop rigged and I think that the Sloop is and has been a great way to introduce young people to cat sailing and I don't want to see it dissapear.

Re: Nationals Format [Re: ] #263646
09/11/13 10:56 PM
09/11/13 10:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
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Darryn Offline
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Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
Why not have the Mk1 and Mk2 states on different weekends? I think your idea will encourage growth in both versions of the boat at a state level.

It's just not worth driving a third of the way across Australia for a one and a half day Mk1 Nationals. What if one of those days has no wind or is blown out?

Spinnaker numbers are surprising, would be interesting to know how many have been made. I hope some more locals fit them, I have only raced against a Mosquito with a spinnaker twice, looks like fun.

Putting on the flak jacket now...
Darryn
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