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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262300
08/10/13 03:01 PM
08/10/13 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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There is an interesting thread on SA btw on how to get around the broadcasting restrictions:
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=136478&st=0

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262301
08/10/13 05:31 PM
08/10/13 05:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
I will we ever see fleet racing on the 72s? This match racing has been pretty boring.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262305
08/10/13 07:58 PM
08/10/13 07:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 382
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
enthusiast
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SE MI / NE IN
So what does one do with an AC72 after being eliminated? I can't see tourists sailing it in St Martin.


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262306
08/10/13 08:21 PM
08/10/13 08:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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bacho  Offline
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Greenville SC
Puts it in a warehouse for a decade before its chopped up and thrown in the dumpster.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262307
08/10/13 09:43 PM
08/10/13 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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There's always...

Craig's List!

(psst, you Artemis guys can park it at my house for a few months, free!)


Blade F16
#777
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262308
08/10/13 10:05 PM
08/10/13 10:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Looks like the LV Finals will be broadcast on Aug. 17, 18. Here's the NBC Sports Sched for their race coverage (sorry for their formatting):

Date


Event
August 17
Louis Vuitton Cup Finals

NBCSN
6-8 p.m.
August 18
Louis Vuitton Cup Finals
NBCSN
6-8 p.m.

August 24


Louis Vuitton Cup Finals


NBCSN


7-9 p.m.

August 25*


Louis Vuitton Cup Finals


NBCSN


7-9 p.m.

August 28*


Louis Vuitton Cup Finals


NBCSN


5-7 p.m.

August 30*


Louis Vuitton Cup Finals


NBCSN


5-7 p.m.

September 7


America’s Cup Finals


NBC


4-6 p.m.

September 8


America’s Cup Finals


NBC


4-6 p.m.

September 10


America’s Cup Finals


NBCSN


3:30-6 p.m.

September 12


America’s Cup Finals


NBCSN


3:30-6 p.m.

September 14


America’s Cup Finals


NBCSN


3:30-6 p.m.

September 15*


America’s Cup Finals


NBCSN


3:30-6 p.m.

September 17*


America’s Cup Finals


NBCSN


3:30-6 p.m.

September 19*


America’s Cup Finals


NBCSN


3:30-6 p.m.

September 21*


America’s Cup Finals


NBCSN


3:30-6 p.m.


Blade F16
#777
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262309
08/11/13 08:36 AM
08/11/13 08:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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T

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Portland, Maine
Presumably if Oracle wins, the AC72 rule will be tweaked to allow better foiling controls - thus big blue may sail again.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262311
08/11/13 09:09 AM
08/11/13 09:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490
On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
Pooh-Bah
P.M.  Offline OP
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On the Water
Race 4 stats

Here is the replay of race 4. So Umps rule a double penalty on Artemis, it is assumed that the ruling was based on LR acquired ROW per Starboard. The Double was because Artemis gained an advantage because of the foul. Question is was it a good call? Did LR give Artemis room to keep clear? It looked like Outteridge did not react. Good stuff.



Post Race Conference



Race 4 digest





Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262312
08/11/13 09:13 AM
08/11/13 09:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
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On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
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This was just awkward.

some pics followed by video.
RHCP pics




Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262313
08/11/13 09:17 AM
08/11/13 09:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
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On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
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More on Oracle cheating.
Media, they're just so . . . .


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262314
08/11/13 09:20 AM
08/11/13 09:20 AM
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P.M. Offline OP
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On the Water


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262315
08/11/13 09:24 AM
08/11/13 09:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
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On the Water
P.M. Offline OP
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Richard Gladwell's take on Oracle cheating here.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262316
08/11/13 09:39 AM
08/11/13 09:39 AM
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P.M. Offline OP
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No doubt that Artemis has successfully climbed a mountain and has succeeded at every level. They plan on coming back to compete at the next cup.

Luna Rossa, on the other hand, is not the same team that was DSQ against NZ for finishing >5 minutes behind them in the round robins. They have improved dramatically, both in boat speed and handling. Both LR and NZ expect to bring updated platforms the next time they meet.

Then there is talk that both NZ and Oracle might bring upwind foiling to the game, if it proves they can get better VMG with it. We'll see.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262317
08/11/13 09:42 AM
08/11/13 09:42 AM
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P.M. Offline OP
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262322
08/11/13 07:31 PM
08/11/13 07:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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That penalty on Artemis was crap. From the moment they lost right of way, they could have done nothing different. Outterage has the wheel hard to port for an eternity before they touched. If you go look at the video replay of the race at 35:46 you can clearly see outterage turn the wheel hard to port before LR crosses head to wind. He is not required to anticipate that LR will go completely to starboard. He is required to start to avoid when LR obtains right of way and he did that before that even happened. LR has to give them time and opportunity. I feel like Artemis clearly met their obligation.

The insult is that it really looked like Artemis had a shot at winning that one. They looked much better.

I hope they have an opportunity for redress...but I'm not sure how that works in this series.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262324
08/11/13 08:35 PM
08/11/13 08:35 PM
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P.M. Offline OP
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Outterage even says so at 35:55. You can clearly hear him in the audio. Guess the umps didn't see it. They were probably too busy watching the jibs to determine S/P and missed it. They don't have the luxury to analyze video/audio and render a decision in a matter of seconds. I felt like Outterage nailed it, a successful luff, and likewise Draper pulled off an interesting reaction.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262339
08/12/13 07:07 AM
08/12/13 07:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by P.M.
They don't have the luxury to analyze video/audio and render a decision in a matter of seconds.


Obviously...but the judges should have a good understanding of the maneuverability of these boats and should have been able to recognize that what Artemis would have had to have done to keep clear was impossible. It's their job to know enough to make the right call...and that one should have been an easier one if they knew what they should have known.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262343
08/12/13 07:56 AM
08/12/13 07:56 AM
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Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty, etc. I agree Jake, it was a BS call, but with the umpires and 'on the water instant penalty' program they are using, I guess they can't wait until after the race, in the protest room, to figure it out.

I think we were all pulling for Artemis to win at least one, and it did look like they had a great start going.

Now, why did they go out of bounds later in the race?


Blade F16
#777
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Timbo] #262346
08/12/13 08:15 AM
08/12/13 08:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Timbo
Benefit of the doubt, innocent until proven guilty, etc. I agree Jake, it was a BS call, but with the umpires and 'on the water instant penalty' program they are using, I guess they can't wait until after the race, in the protest room, to figure it out.

I think we were all pulling for Artemis to win at least one, and it did look like they had a great start going.

Now, why did they go out of bounds later in the race?


Undoubtedly because they were behind and needed to push the limits to try and get an advantage. They just pushed it too far.

The other frustration on their part is the length of time it took the umpires to issue the penalty...I'm sure they were trying to figure out what they had just been penalized for when it came up as they had just rounded the first mark. The competitor should have as much time to react as it took the judges to issue the penalty. ;-)

It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall in that umpire discussion that ensued after the contact. You can bet that it was not a unanimous decision.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262351
08/12/13 09:01 AM
08/12/13 09:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
O
orphan Offline
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O

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 302
Daytona Beach Florida
In the broadcast there was talk that when the call went to jib someone signaled they were not ready and they had to delay the jibe which put them out of bounds.

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