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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262358
08/12/13 09:59 AM
08/12/13 09:59 AM
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samc99us Offline
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That was penalty #3. #2 They attempted to go beyond LR's line and tack out of their wind shadow. This put them out of bounds. For a change LR sailed a good race with no out of bounds penalties.

I agree with the above the start was a mistake on the umpires part. Artemis had a perfect start and excellent boat speed on the first reaching leg. There is definitely a possibility they would have won had they not incurred the massive penalty from the pre-start.

It's also become painfully clear that, as catsailingnews pointed out and others have mentioned, the course is really poor tactically. It's virtually impossible to pass upwind unless you get a really lucky shift or really lucky puff. Otherwise you're forced to follow your competitor to stay out of the current. I suspect this is why Oracle and TNZ have been working on foiling upwind. Even at a net VMG penalty, if they can scoot across the course extremely quickly doing 25 kts+ upwind they open up their escape options upwind...


Scorpion F18
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262359
08/12/13 10:05 AM
08/12/13 10:05 AM
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Don't know how reliable this report is from the SA Forums but here you go:

Quote
From the start of race 4 - here is the distressing truth:

The penalty was a joke - this is the factual evidence - I was on the water listening to the radios and saw what happened:

1. whether Artemis were at fault is dubious at best
2. The umpires penalised Artemis 25 s before the start
3. It was supposed to be a VMG penalty
4. the umpire in the booth was not accustomed with the buttons so fucked up on pressing the buttons to indicate a vmg penalty
- Umpire Mike Martin who would normally press the buttons was awol (apparently with the band "red hot chilli powders " in a rib on the water)
5. The woman replacing Mike Martin in the booth fucked up by not knowing the button sequence - after pressing the SWE penalty button you then have to press either the VMG button (as in this case) or the boat on boat bot penalty button)
6. in a panic she pressed the SWE penalty button and then realised that nothing had happened so instead of pressing the VMG button pressed the SWE button again which completely cleared the penalty.
7. It was a total kiss up - the penalty was supposed to be a vmg penalty which would have penalised Artemis by approx. 2 boat lengths on the first reach - they started 4 boat lengths ahead of LR so should have still been leading at mark 1
8. the penalty was so late it was a joke and it was eventually signalled as a boat on boat penalty (due to it being signalled so late after the start), instead of a vmg penalty
9, Artemis were completely screwed by the umpires - and that's the way it is
10. When the umpires realised they had fucked up WHY didn't they just abandon the race at mark 1 and do a restart ??
10. Artemis could have protested the race afterwards but the honour of guys like percy and TT decided that it just wasn't worth it.

CONCLUSION: Umpire's you fucked up and deprived us of a possibly the best race so far, #pleasedon'tfuckupagain

#sailonbart

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262364
08/12/13 10:59 AM
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Sounds about right. A flag would have worked just fine.

Last edited by samc99us; 08/12/13 11:00 AM.

Scorpion F18
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: samc99us] #262365
08/12/13 11:14 AM
08/12/13 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by samc99us

It's also become painfully clear that, as catsailingnews pointed out and others have mentioned, the course is really poor tactically. It's virtually impossible to pass upwind unless you get a really lucky shift or really lucky puff. Otherwise you're forced to follow your competitor to stay out of the current.


I also think that the 2 minute dial up is a complete travesty of match racing. There's just not enough time at these speeds. . . .


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262366
08/12/13 11:36 AM
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Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262367
08/12/13 11:37 AM
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Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262368
08/12/13 11:37 AM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262369
08/12/13 11:37 AM
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Agree completely, the pre-start has been the most exciting part of the AC72's so far, especially for the non-sailors. Only getting one shot at a dial up really limits the action needlessly.


Scorpion F18
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262370
08/12/13 11:38 AM
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http://etnzblog.com/#!2013/08/big-w

Emirates Team New Zealand is now the Challenger of Record by virtue of Artemis Racing’s elimination. Emirates Team New Zealand now has the right of veto over any last-minute attempts to change the Protocol or the racing rules. - See more at: http://etnzblog.com/#!2013/08/big-w


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262372
08/12/13 01:13 PM
08/12/13 01:13 PM
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ThunderMuffin Offline
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Slightly off-topic, but did anyone else think the same thing I did at the end of this quick vid?



Hint...

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Undecided; 08/12/13 01:14 PM.
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262377
08/12/13 04:47 PM
08/12/13 04:47 PM
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Lol. I laugh every time I see on board footage of Luna Rossa. Chris Draper appeared to be carrying an ipad on his belly that made him appear like even more of a storm trooper.

I really hope they beat TNZ in one race so they aren't picked on forever about their team uniform. It's probably waay too late, hot pink jumpsuits would be better.


Scorpion F18
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262383
08/13/13 03:34 AM
08/13/13 03:34 AM
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Any ideas on why Oracle added 2.5kgs to the spinpole support strut?
I light air I can see some advantage of having extra weight up front, but I cant see how such a small amount would make any difference to performance (its 0.002% of the total weight!)

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #262386
08/13/13 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Any ideas on why Oracle added 2.5kgs to the spinpole support strut?
I light air I can see some advantage of having extra weight up front, but I cant see how such a small amount would make any difference to performance (its 0.002% of the total weight!)


5 lbs makes no sense at all. I don't care where it was placed. It didn't change the performance of the boat. The rules are the rules though.
I think the people here realize that.

I can think of only three things it could be, cheating, stupidity or sabotage. I'm hoping it's the last one.


Have Fun
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #262387
08/13/13 07:45 AM
08/13/13 07:45 AM
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Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Any ideas on why Oracle added 2.5kgs to the spinpole support strut?
I light air I can see some advantage of having extra weight up front, but I cant see how such a small amount would make any difference to performance (its 0.002% of the total weight!)


Wow, is that what this is all about? 5 ADDITIONAL pounds of weight? Don't they want their boats to be lighter? (that was rhetorical)


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Jake] #262391
08/13/13 08:25 AM
08/13/13 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Any ideas on why Oracle added 2.5kgs to the spinpole support strut?
I light air I can see some advantage of having extra weight up front, but I cant see how such a small amount would make any difference to performance (its 0.002% of the total weight!)


Wow, is that what this is all about? 5 ADDITIONAL pounds of weight? Don't they want their boats to be lighter? (that was rhetorical)


Indeed. Proportionally speaking, it'd be like us putting a water bottle in a forward tramp pocket.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262398
08/13/13 10:14 AM
08/13/13 10:14 AM
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It's actually like the additional weight they accumulate due to wet gear during the race.

That said - it's the rulzes! It will be interesting to hear what becomes of this.

Last edited by itbvolks; 08/13/13 10:15 AM.
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #262399
08/13/13 11:05 AM
08/13/13 11:05 AM
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Maybe it was their Beer??

For after the races, on the ride home??

It makes no sense otherwise, and I highly doubt it had any real effect on their performance.


Blade F16
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #262400
08/13/13 11:35 AM
08/13/13 11:35 AM
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Mark Schneider Offline
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Why??

No reason... I think they had to add weight... so.. somebody thought that this was the best place for it... just NOT the approved location for corrector weights. I think it is just the culture of sailing these days... Push the rules... wait for the protest... deal with the consequences.

If given three choices... Cheating, Stupidity, or Sabotage...

I vote stupidity..A culture that agrees.. this is a trivial rule, it won't make a difference in performance. Therefore... Push it.


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Mark Schneider] #262402
08/13/13 12:26 PM
08/13/13 12:26 PM
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Luiz Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
I think they had to add weight... so.. somebody thought that this was the best place for it...


Arguably the best place would be half in the bows and half in the transoms. This would increase moment of inertia and reduce pitching.


Luiz
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Luiz] #262403
08/13/13 12:40 PM
08/13/13 12:40 PM
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Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Luiz
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
I think they had to add weight... so.. somebody thought that this was the best place for it...


Arguably the best place would be half in the bows and half in the transoms. This would increase moment of inertia and reduce pitching.


It would decrease the frequency of the pitching but increase the distance it pitches - which may not be favorable. The traditional school of thought is that it's better to reduce the depth of the pitching since the waves are going to help dictate the pitch regardless of weight position. It doesn't fit 100% of the situations, but I have understood that it is generally better to have the weight centralized.


Jake Kohl
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