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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Timbo] #263559
09/11/13 04:39 AM
09/11/13 04:39 AM
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Not directly AC related but cool nonetheless, Johnny Heineken has some serious skills.
Maybe they should give him some time on the helm of a 72.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Timbo] #263561
09/11/13 06:59 AM
09/11/13 06:59 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrzcOEKiRiI

I just got to watch Race 5. Wow. Talk about a fk up!

Rick, you need to FedEx these clowns a copy of your Catamaran Racing for the 90's! It's obvious whom ever is calling for a downwind rounding at high speed, to roll right into a tack (and come to a dead stop!) has never raced a catamaran before!

I distinctly remember somewhere in your book, Randy Smyth said something like, "Speed is all that matters. Go as fast as you can, as long as you can!" Nowhere did it say, "If you are going fast and well ahead, bring the boat to a complete stop and wait for your opponent to catch up!"

Just wow! What a mess. They should have just stayed on starboard, rounded at high speed, kept on going fast, and waited for ETNZ to round, see which way they go, then either tack (SMOOTHLY, with Speed!) or carry on to the far left, and out of the adverse current!

Seemed like rookie mistakes.

Do you think JK has gotten LE's Sperry out of his butt yet?


At best case and with a significant lead (worthy of two tacks not causing you much harm), you round the mark and tack back so you reach near the middle of the course at the time your competitor is rounding the mark so you can follow from the front and stay in phase with them. That was bizarre to see them tack right away at that rounding. It does look like they thought they had a sneaky creative manuever in that they could get a free tack by going straight into a tack coming around the mark while still on their foils. They wanted to get right anyway but because tacks are so expensive, they reached the boundary too soon and would have had to do 2 more tacks to stay on the same type of line NZ was running into the lee water of Alcatraz. The blown tack hurt but tacking right away at the mark left them at the edge of the zone too early to take advantage of that side of the course. I heard a comment in the press conference that they just didn't have time to get everything setup for that tack which is part of the reason it looked so awful (the new leeward board wasn't even lowered yet). That was a major dork up.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263564
09/11/13 07:35 AM
09/11/13 07:35 AM
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brucat Offline
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I really feel for the guys on the crew. The "brain trust" has failed them miserably. The looks on their faces at the end of that race was gut-wrenching.

You know it's bad when Kenny is asked why they pulled that stunt, he has no idea, and passes off to Gary, who is also stunned...

During the race, on that leg, Kenny is thinking that they must have broken something on the boat that made them want to tack. Just unbelievable. They should have just rounded the other mark and kept going fast.

I think they honestly don't know which way to go at that mark. Seems like they've tried both ways in prior races, and have been passed anyway.

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263565
09/11/13 07:36 AM
09/11/13 07:36 AM
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Daytona Beach Florida
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The call I made last night after seeing JS move to the chaseboat to talk to RC instead of sailing the boat home was that JK is off and RC is on. Waiting to see what happens Thursday.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263566
09/11/13 07:40 AM
09/11/13 07:40 AM
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That might be their only remaining hope...

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263567
09/11/13 07:56 AM
09/11/13 07:56 AM
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Eastern NC, USA
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I thought tactics didn't matter in multihull racing? At least, that is what my friends at the yacht club told me. blush


Tom
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263568
09/11/13 08:12 AM
09/11/13 08:12 AM
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The so-called "purists" want to see tacking duels all the way up the course, luffing each other until one chokes, etc. I say that Larry is more in touch with what the regatta was originally about: crazy spending on new technologies, and winning at any cost. I don't know that he intended it to end up this way (so few competitors), but that is essentially how it was before the 12-meter years.

Anyway, what idiot wastes their question in the presser asking something that they know won't be answered now, or at any other time until after the last race: Do you have an agreed protocol for the next one??? She needs her credentials revoked immediately...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #263571
09/11/13 08:23 AM
09/11/13 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by brucat
The so-called "purists" want to see tacking duels all the way up the course, luffing each other until one chokes, etc. I say that Larry is more in touch with what the regatta was originally about: crazy spending on new technologies, and winning at any cost. I don't know that he intended it to end up this way (so few competitors), but that is essentially how it was before the 12-meter years.

Anyway, what idiot wastes their question in the presser asking something that they know won't be answered now, or at any other time until after the last race: Do you have an agreed protocol for the next one??? She needs her credentials revoked immediately...

Mike


Yeah...but imagine if he had answered something in the positive to that question? The challenger cannot be accepted until the current cup is won and it's supposed to be first come first serve. To have pre-"selected" a challenger would be not legal per the DoG (although it is pretty much common knowledge that this is what happens). It seemed like a stupid question but she was fishing for a whale. I remember thinking how it was a good thing for NZ that their guys are knowledgeable and/or coached in this area.

If you remember, Larry's challenge to Bertarelli came about because they were able to show that the club that was the official challenger of record was a sham and didn't meet the requirements for "a club" in the DoG. They legally got them booted and Golden Gate Yacht Club's challenge was next in line.

The winners typically have the next challenger of record on a boat with them near the race course to sign a basic agreement moments after the winning boat crosses the line so they can control the transition without leaving room for interference. Until that point, there can be no challenger.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263576
09/11/13 08:44 AM
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brucat Offline
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I know all of that. It was a wasted question which everyone knows would never be answered.

If you want to know who the next challenger will be, find the commodore of each club before the last race, and see who is with him on the boat. Good luck with that, BTW...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263582
09/11/13 09:38 AM
09/11/13 09:38 AM
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brucat Offline
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BTW, Jimmy was obviously VERY well-coached in some of his answers (or dodging, I should say).

And, although the commentators are getting somewhat more accustomed to cat tactics (they correctly identified that as a mistake almost immediately), on a monohull, spinning around that mark may have turned out to be a brilliant match-racing move. Too bad JK and JS forgot that they're on a cat...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Carl] #263590
09/11/13 11:14 AM
09/11/13 11:14 AM
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Naples, FL
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Originally Posted by Carl
They should make an honest statement --such as --We have an equal or better boat but have not had the time on it racing enough to sail it to its true potential--and tactics and strategy are much different in high speed cats --we are learning the hard way in that category as well


+1 on that. My amatureish view of the stats doesn't seem to indicate a notable difference in either boat's POTENTIAL. So it would be a shame to "blame the boat" like we so often do...

There was one overhead shot during race 3 that appeared to show OTUSA wing trimmed really weird (compared to ENTZ). Almost like overtrimmed on the top section, maybe even hooking to windward. I can't imagine Kyle would do that, and I know the wing profiles are different between the two boats, but it sure looked "off"...


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263593
09/11/13 11:40 AM
09/11/13 11:40 AM
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Arizona
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My understanding is that they will do that to off set some of the moment to lee created by the rest of the wing. The wing was designed to fly a hull in 6 knots of breeze. If the rig were shorter, they could theoretically go faster. Less drag. So they are using the top section to create force to windward. The drag is already there, they are just using the rig to gain the most advantage.


Auscat MKV 444 A class
NACRA I-20- 440/CATHATKA
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263601
09/11/13 01:48 PM
09/11/13 01:48 PM
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I'm prognosticating there will definitely be a new afterguard.
Sir Ben Ainslie


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263602
09/11/13 01:50 PM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263603
09/11/13 01:52 PM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263604
09/11/13 01:52 PM
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[Linked Image]


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263605
09/11/13 01:57 PM
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Listen to the podcast. They call this foiling tack maneuver the "Mr. Whoopie". Turns out NZ might have done it if Oracle didn't.

Podcast Episode 25 - ETNZ's Ray Davies and TV New Zealand's Peter Lester after AC race five


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263606
09/11/13 01:58 PM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263607
09/11/13 02:00 PM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263608
09/11/13 02:04 PM
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Philip
USA #1006
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