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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263609
09/11/13 02:07 PM
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Philip
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-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263610
09/11/13 02:08 PM
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Interesting stuff from that article above Philip, thanks. Obviously that's reason why ETNZ is so much faster/better at foiling. Why LE didn't hire M+M is beyond me, but I'm sure he had a reason...?

One of the team's early hires was designer and foiling expert Pete Melvin, who had worked on Oracle's successful 2010 campaign and was commissioned by Ellison to create the guidelines for the cutting-edge, double-hulled AC 72 yachts used in the 2013 Cup. "That was the target for us," said Grant Dalton, the team's managing director. "What's this thing supposed to look like? The best way to find that out is to go to one of the guys who wrote the rule in the first place."

A former U.S. Olympic sailor, Melvin said he was unsure whether the boats, which were speedy but unwieldy, would be able to achieve stable foiling. But Melvin said his team found a way to do it six to eight months ahead of the competition. The Kiwis tried to hide the breakthrough from their competitor's spy boats, so they foiled only when they thought the scouts were out of sight.

The other three teams in the Cup eventually replicated the discovery, but the Kiwis do it better, especially upwind, said Chris Draper, the helmsman of the Italian team Luna Rossa, which New Zealand eliminated in a preliminary round.

To sail upwind, a boat zigzags, making a series of turns called tacks. When New Zealand tacks, it keeps one hull above the water and stays at 10 knots or above, Draper said. But when Oracle tacks, both hulls remain in the sea and the yacht slows to around nine knots, Draper said, because Oracle's foiling system is more rudimentary. The Kiwis "are able to achieve a tack that will be very hard for Oracle to replicate," Draper said. "Oracle's going to have to sail exceptionally well to win this."



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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Timbo] #263611
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so, basically, it is really stupid for OTUSA to get in a tacking duel with ENTZ if what he says is correct about the tacking deltas


Jay

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263613
09/11/13 02:33 PM
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Yeah, but it was really stupid not to hire the guys who wrote the rules too! And all the practice time Oracle lost when they pitch-poled their boat has certainly shown that superior boat handling is what the race is about, as it should be.

Basically, the Kiwi's have spent more time sailing, on a better foiling system. That Oracle has been in front in 3 of 5 races is amazing.


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263614
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Where the heck are those light air days we were suppose to see in September? It would make for an interesting race.


Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Timbo] #263615
09/11/13 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Timbo
Yeah, but it was really stupid not to hire the guys who wrote the rules too! And all the practice time Oracle lost when they pitch-poled their boat has certainly shown that superior boat handling is what the race is about, as it should be.

Basically, the Kiwi's have spent more time sailing, on a better foiling system. That Oracle has been in front in 3 of 5 races is amazing.


Being fast can make you look smart

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263617
09/11/13 02:49 PM
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263618
09/11/13 02:55 PM
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Anyone notice the revised rudders on Oracle in the video Philip posted above (pg188)? Interesting. Those weren't even painted. I would guess that was a Monday change.

Look at 2:47 on the video.

Last edited by itbvolks; 09/11/13 03:00 PM.
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263619
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263620
09/11/13 03:31 PM
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That was a well written piece. Interesting take vs everything else being published post drubbing......

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263621
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Stephen Barclay
"It looks like OTUSA experimenting with afterguard in today's training"


Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263622
09/11/13 03:45 PM
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When he talks about Oracle burning up a 135 meter lead to only 35 meters in the maneuver at the bottom of the course, he hasn't considered the speed difference in upwind and downwind legs and how that translates to the distance. Oracle didn't really burn up a 135 meter lead. By the vary nature of both boats dropping from 38 knots to 23 knots of boat speed, the distance between them would have been reduced by 40% as well...so just slowing down for the upwind angle closed the distance between them from 135 meters to 82 meters.

The time between them would remain the same, however. If boat A is 20 seconds behind boat B at 50 mph and they both decelerate to 25 mph at an identical rate, boat A is still 20 seconds behind boat B but they are 50% closer together.

Anytime you see these boats drop so much speed in the transition from downwind mode to upwind mode, you will see the distance between them compress. So Oracle only actually gave up 47 meters in that kerfuffle.

This is also why it may pay to round the bottom mark with a bunch of speed, keep that speed for a little while at the expense of sliding a little downwind until you settle on your foils. We've seen pretty dramatic differences in closing distances if you can ease into that deceleration while slowly dropping into the upwind mode (I'm not sure they have this figured out yet). We've seen several dramatic come-from-behinds by the way these guys round the bottom mark...and it's usually the guy that screams into the mark, exits wide, and slowly settles into an upwind mode that makes up a ton of distance.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263624
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. . . and Oracle was still ahead after the first tack. But at that point Barker had them in his gun-sight and was locked and loaded.


Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263625
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263628
09/11/13 05:21 PM
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263629
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I'd like to be wrong but I think the fat lady is warming up.


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263630
09/11/13 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by P.M.


Let's see, an expert at racing lasers and fins. Yup, he should know everything about multi-hull racing tactics. That'll fix it.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263631
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #263632
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Jake] #263633
09/11/13 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by P.M.


Let's see, an expert at racing lasers and fins. Yup, he should know everything about multi-hull racing tactics. That'll fix it.


I like the choice. He's been driving boat #1 all this time and he has a good feel for speeds, tacking angles/time, time on distance, the effect of the currents, etc.

He and Jimmy might just gel better. Who knows if there was friction between JS and JK.


Philip
USA #1006
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