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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265084
09/25/13 01:35 PM
09/25/13 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by P.M.
He's Back.



as in Dalton.


Captain always goes down with the ship. Props. (I hope I'm not jinxing it for OTUSA!!!)


Last edited by Undecided; 09/25/13 01:36 PM.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #265085
09/25/13 01:39 PM
09/25/13 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by brucat
Originally Posted by Timbo
Originally Posted by brucat
The thought process was, we can teach professional, big-boat, match racing sailors how to sail cats, much easier than we can teach cat sailors to match race.

EDIT: I agree about the nationality rules. Jerome (Rome) Kirby is from Newport (and is either Ken Read's godson, or should be) and is the only American currently on the boat.

Don't forget, the rules had loopholes in the past, and you saw a lot of shady passport-changing leading up to each iteration.

Mike


Yeah...not so much. The speeds are so great on cats that one bad move (or 2 extra tacks) are going to give the other guy hundreds of yards. Like Randy Smyth said in Rick's book, "Speed is all that matters, go as fast as you can, as long as you can." and that was long before anyone ever went 40knots on a cat! Speed is much more important now, because 'going slow' costs you so much now, more when the other guy is going 40!

These guys still seem to think tacking is going to win them a race.


That has been our observation all along (except maybe for Jeff, LOL)...

Anyone else wish the skippers were Ashby and Bundock?

Mike


I appreciate the shout out, and of course will stubbornly stand by my opinion/experience.

As for the tack, I don't think NZ was trying for a leebow, because as has been pointed out, that rarely works in fast boats (cats or otherwise). To me the decision was (with Oracle being MUCH faster upwind at the time):

1. Cross, which would have given Oracle the favored current and starboard advantage on the next cross

2. Lead back to the boundary where you have room to tack, knowing Oracle will then have to decide to either tack early underneath you or carry to the boundary and fall in line. The foiling low mode Oracle displayed basically killed this option.

I think the decision was much like the foiling tack- the opposing boat had a very clear upwind speed advantage which severely limited tactical options, therefore you have to try a much more uncomfortable move. Your mileage may vary.


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: bacho] #265086
09/25/13 01:45 PM
09/25/13 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bacho
In thinking that ETNZ will not use the card today, I am not even sure they can?


I'm betting they won't (if they could?). They would have used it yesterday if it entered their mind. I don't think it's in NZ mindset to do something like that.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265087
09/25/13 01:50 PM
09/25/13 01:50 PM
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Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265088
09/25/13 01:50 PM
09/25/13 01:50 PM
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Per the rules, the card can only be played for the second race of the day.

They cannot play it. Its lost to them.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Jeff.Dusek] #265089
09/25/13 01:53 PM
09/25/13 01:53 PM
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Jeff, Ken Read made similar observations. ETNZ was out of good options at that point. Even if they tacked directly in front (without fouling), Oracle was probably close enough to foot and sail through their lee.

Although, that would have been entertaining too...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #265090
09/25/13 01:58 PM
09/25/13 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by brucat
Jeff, Ken Read made similar observations. ETNZ was out of good options at that point. Even if they tacked directly in front (without fouling), Oracle was probably close enough to foot and sail through their lee.

Although, that would have been entertaining too...

Mike


Right and had they tacked on top of Oracle, they were quite close to the boundary and would have had to give room to Oracle both on starboard after they tacked and because of the boundary... having to short tack in quick succession without getting up to speed.

They were in a bad spot and to be honest I would have just kept sailing in a straight line.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265091
09/25/13 01:58 PM
09/25/13 01:58 PM
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Well, since I'm an American, I'm pulling for Oracle, even if there's only one American on the boat!

Hey, are there any Americans on ETNZ?

I guess if there were two Americans on ETNZ, I'd have to pull for them?


Blade F16
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265092
09/25/13 02:02 PM
09/25/13 02:02 PM
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The Bulldog, on a cat with nine lives, is coming after you DB.

[Linked Image]


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265093
09/25/13 02:04 PM
09/25/13 02:04 PM
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BTW, venue tickets are free today, if you can get there.
Dock out fans


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265095
09/25/13 02:18 PM
09/25/13 02:18 PM
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From my buddy Kirk Jockell -

http://strictlysailing.com/?p=118

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265096
09/25/13 02:19 PM
09/25/13 02:19 PM
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Wind 265 at 17.0 kts, 18.5 kts peak


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265097
09/25/13 02:23 PM
09/25/13 02:23 PM
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Boats should be in the water tuning/warming up!

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265098
09/25/13 02:24 PM
09/25/13 02:24 PM
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Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265099
09/25/13 02:36 PM
09/25/13 02:36 PM
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I was impressed with ETNZ's speed down wind yesterday. They got the boat moded right for down wind.....

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265101
09/25/13 02:43 PM
09/25/13 02:43 PM
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FANTASTIC ARTICLE.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: itbvolks] #265102
09/25/13 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by itbvolks
I was impressed with ETNZ's speed down wind yesterday. They got the boat moded right for down wind.....


Except that Oracle was faster on average downwind.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265103
09/25/13 02:45 PM
09/25/13 02:45 PM
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Great article. I think one point that a lot of people don't see about sailing is that there are no brakes. You don't just stop if there is a problem. On boats of this size, even stopping with control requires a concerted effort among several crew members. The wind is a beast and we barely have a bit in it's mouth or a toe in a foot strap. The speed IS impressive but the real sensation of sailing performance boats is that you are hooking into a force that you can't necessarily stop when you want to.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265104
09/25/13 02:45 PM
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Wind 270 at 19.0 kts, 22.0 kts peak


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: ThunderMuffin] #265105
09/25/13 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Undecided
Originally Posted by itbvolks
I was impressed with ETNZ's speed down wind yesterday. They got the boat moded right for down wind.....


Except that Oracle was faster on average downwind.


With how much quicker Oracle has been - Kiwi's made up some ground there yesterday - particularly race 1.

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