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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265232
09/25/13 11:05 PM
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Philip
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-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265233
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265234
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265235
09/25/13 11:19 PM
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Who was giving the motivational talks?

Setting his sights on the America’s Cup World Series in Venice, Fowler flew himself to Italy on his own dime, lending a hand to the ORACLE TEAM USA shore team.

Meet Kinley Fowler



Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265237
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Jake] #265238
09/26/13 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by P.M.
There's something wrong here. I just put a sign on my door.
"DO NOT DISTURB NO MATTER WHAT!!


I can't leave work early but Bonnie wants to see it together - so I'm going dark. Phone in airplane mode and internet off...oh, the anticipation! Good luck Oracle Team USA and I hope it's a good one.

Think Jake's screaming at the screen right about now? Ha


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265239
09/26/13 12:55 AM
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The best part of the presser: Larry said that it would be great if more kids start sailing, and if they sail HOBIE CATS instead of Lasers!

He later botched it a bit by talking about Lasers a lot, but did circle back and again mentioned getting kids onto cats!!!!!

We need to find a way to tap into this momentum...

Mike

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265240
09/26/13 02:53 AM
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Computer science wins the 34th America's Cup

Quote
Well it wasn't the result we wanted but today we finally learned what won the America's Cup - it was computer science. No I don't mean Oracle (though of course Oracle Team USA did win). I mean Oracle's Speed Augmentation System (SAS). This is an automated computer controlled fly-by-wire system that adjusts Oracle's hydrofoils automatically. Team New Zealand's hydrofoils are adjusted manually by a crew member. Apparently Boeing helped OTUSA with the technology, which is essentially the same as the fly-by-wire systems that continually adjust the flight surfaces of modern aircraft. This explains the remarkable speed gains that OTUSA have shown in the last 10 days, effectively locking the Kiwi's out of the cup. The SAS just gives OTUSA a more stable foiling platform and stability equals speed. So far other that what the TV commentators have been saying I've been unable to find any details of the system online, but I'll keep looking.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265245
09/26/13 07:20 AM
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From the above quoted article: "This is an automated computer controlled fly-by-wire system that adjusts Oracle's hydrofoils automatically."


I'm just a little skeptical of the above "Fly by wire" report. Not because it's not possible, certainly it is, but in order to have a system like that, one additional thing you need is a stable reference point (in airplanes we have laser ring gyro's) to define whatever 'stable' attitude you are trying to attain.

Now, if instead of saying 'fully automatic' he meant 'electric/hydrolic' vs. manual, for control of the foil tilt system, that I would believe.

OR...maybe they actually did install some type of gyros into the hulls, and hook them up to the foil tilt system?? That would explain why all of a sudden Oracle was able to start foiling upwind?


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265246
09/26/13 07:26 AM
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Timbo, that's pretty easy to achieve:

a) they can put a laser ring gyro or MEMS 6-DOF sensor on the AC72 for AOA and a host of other variables (likely existed from day 1)
b) multiple sensor technologies exist that give you height above water.
c) all of it is pretty darn cheap, save a laser ring gyro which is unnecessary (not navigating from point A to point B 3000 miles away)

I've been thinking about this all week, it's really the only solution I can see making a notable speed gain in the short time frame they had to modify the boat. I'm not sure it's class legal, and I'm not sure I believe the report that it's true.


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #265247
09/26/13 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Computer science wins the 34th America's Cup

Quote
Well it wasn't the result we wanted but today we finally learned what won the America's Cup - it was computer science. No I don't mean Oracle (though of course Oracle Team USA did win). I mean Oracle's Speed Augmentation System (SAS). This is an automated computer controlled fly-by-wire system that adjusts Oracle's hydrofoils automatically. Team New Zealand's hydrofoils are adjusted manually by a crew member. Apparently Boeing helped OTUSA with the technology, which is essentially the same as the fly-by-wire systems that continually adjust the flight surfaces of modern aircraft. This explains the remarkable speed gains that OTUSA have shown in the last 10 days, effectively locking the Kiwi's out of the cup. The SAS just gives OTUSA a more stable foiling platform and stability equals speed. So far other that what the TV commentators have been saying I've been unable to find any details of the system online, but I'll keep looking.


This guy is full of it. He bases his opinion on what TV commetators have said. Good luck with that.


Have Fun
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: brucat] #265248
09/26/13 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by brucat
The best part of the presser: Larry said that it would be great if more kids start sailing, and if they sail HOBIE CATS instead of Lasers!

He later botched it a bit by talking about Lasers a lot, but did circle back and again mentioned getting kids onto cats!!!!!

We need to find a way to tap into this momentum...

Mike


Many years ago (16?) when I was teaching a kids sailing class in Optis, along comes the Hobie Wave. When I saw it I thought it would replace the Opti, the kids hated the slow, small, solo little Optis, but they LOVED putting two or three of them on the Wave, and going much faster too!

I know we've had this discussion many times before, and the reason the Opti is more popular as a youth trainer is only because a Yatch Club can buy/store/maintain more Opti's on site, easier, than the same number of Waves. I'll bet if Hobie could design some type of a storage rack system, and cheap/light/easy type of beach wheels to launch the Waves, they could sell a lot more of them to the Yacth Club youth programs. Still, you'd need a beach at the club to launch them from, and many Yacth Clubs just don't have a beach available, but a set of floating docks, which makes it a PITA to launch/retrieve a Wave from.

I once saw a Hobie 16 that lived on a 12'x 12' floating square, because there was no beach anywhere, but that was just one Hobie 16, you'd need a pretty hefty rack system to store 10 Hobie Waves on a float like that. (and a bigger float!)


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #265255
09/26/13 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Computer science wins the 34th America's Cup

Quote
Well it wasn't the result we wanted but today we finally learned what won the America's Cup - it was computer science. No I don't mean Oracle (though of course Oracle Team USA did win). I mean Oracle's Speed Augmentation System (SAS). This is an automated computer controlled fly-by-wire system that adjusts Oracle's hydrofoils automatically. Team New Zealand's hydrofoils are adjusted manually by a crew member. Apparently Boeing helped OTUSA with the technology, which is essentially the same as the fly-by-wire systems that continually adjust the flight surfaces of modern aircraft. This explains the remarkable speed gains that OTUSA have shown in the last 10 days, effectively locking the Kiwi's out of the cup. The SAS just gives OTUSA a more stable foiling platform and stability equals speed. So far other that what the TV commentators have been saying I've been unable to find any details of the system online, but I'll keep looking.


is there anything more official about this or just standard internet bs?
It would explain a lot, but not buying it until I hear something more reliable.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: PTP] #265260
09/26/13 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by PTP
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Computer science wins the 34th America's Cup

Quote
Well it wasn't the result we wanted but today we finally learned what won the America's Cup - it was computer science. No I don't mean Oracle (though of course Oracle Team USA did win). I mean Oracle's Speed Augmentation System (SAS). This is an automated computer controlled fly-by-wire system that adjusts Oracle's hydrofoils automatically. Team New Zealand's hydrofoils are adjusted manually by a crew member. Apparently Boeing helped OTUSA with the technology, which is essentially the same as the fly-by-wire systems that continually adjust the flight surfaces of modern aircraft. This explains the remarkable speed gains that OTUSA have shown in the last 10 days, effectively locking the Kiwi's out of the cup. The SAS just gives OTUSA a more stable foiling platform and stability equals speed. So far other that what the TV commentators have been saying I've been unable to find any details of the system online, but I'll keep looking.


is there anything more official about this or just standard internet bs?
It would explain a lot, but not buying it until I hear something more reliable.

Didnt find an official statement but this guys resume gives it some credibility: http://oracle-team-usa.americascup.com/team/tom-speer

The system would never be fully automatic though, it would just tell the crew what setting to use.

Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: samc99us] #265262
09/26/13 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Timbo, that's pretty easy to achieve:

a) they can put a laser ring gyro or MEMS 6-DOF sensor on the AC72 for AOA and a host of other variables (likely existed from day 1)
b) multiple sensor technologies exist that give you height above water.
c) all of it is pretty darn cheap, save a laser ring gyro which is unnecessary (not navigating from point A to point B 3000 miles away)

I've been thinking about this all week, it's really the only solution I can see making a notable speed gain in the short time frame they had to modify the boat. I'm not sure it's class legal, and I'm not sure I believe the report that it's true.


It would also have to have very quick action to the daggerboards/rudders to be able to adjust them so quickly, they'd have had to completely re-design their inputs to the hydrolic control systems. Not saying they didn't but man, that's a lot of R+D work in not much time!

The 777 has stability augmentation through the fly by wire control inputs, that you never even notice when you are hand flying it. When you hit turbulence or change your configuration (flaps/gear) it puts in opposite controls to dampen out the bumps/changes, so quickly (supposedly many times per second?) you never feel a thing.

I suppose Oracle could have put a similar system on board their boat, to control their foil tilt, that would be a game changer for sure, and probably against some rule, so no wonder they won't tell anyone what exactly they changed to get that thing going faster upwind!



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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: samc99us] #265263
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Timbo, that's pretty easy to achieve:

a) they can put a laser ring gyro or MEMS 6-DOF sensor on the AC72 for AOA and a host of other variables (likely existed from day 1)
b) multiple sensor technologies exist that give you height above water.
c) all of it is pretty darn cheap, save a laser ring gyro which is unnecessary (not navigating from point A to point B 3000 miles away)

I've been thinking about this all week, it's really the only solution I can see making a notable speed gain in the short time frame they had to modify the boat. I'm not sure it's class legal, and I'm not sure I believe the report that it's true.


I heard some rumblings that NZ started to lodge a protest (or at least an inquiry) over a system like it a week or so ago and I think they asked for an interpretation of the rules. I think the consensus was that as long as the motive power was from the sailors, that having a computer adjust the position of the foils was OK. I think ironing this out was a big part of Oracle's new found upwind speed.


Jake Kohl
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265264
09/26/13 08:25 AM
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Wow, that's going to change a lot of stuff going forward!

So, do we "Go Back" to 100% human power, no computers, or do we go to the next step, fully automated Drone Foiler racing?

Heck, you could sit on the dock with a joystick and never even get wet, and still win the America's Cup!

I hate to sound like the Old Fart Monohull Only proponants, but really, where do you draw the line on this stuff?


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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #265265
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Originally Posted by PTP
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Computer science wins the 34th America's Cup

Quote
Well it wasn't the result we wanted but today we finally learned what won the America's Cup - it was computer science. No I don't mean Oracle (though of course Oracle Team USA did win). I mean Oracle's Speed Augmentation System (SAS). This is an automated computer controlled fly-by-wire system that adjusts Oracle's hydrofoils automatically. Team New Zealand's hydrofoils are adjusted manually by a crew member. Apparently Boeing helped OTUSA with the technology, which is essentially the same as the fly-by-wire systems that continually adjust the flight surfaces of modern aircraft. This explains the remarkable speed gains that OTUSA have shown in the last 10 days, effectively locking the Kiwi's out of the cup. The SAS just gives OTUSA a more stable foiling platform and stability equals speed. So far other that what the TV commentators have been saying I've been unable to find any details of the system online, but I'll keep looking.


is there anything more official about this or just standard internet bs?
It would explain a lot, but not buying it until I hear something more reliable.

Didnt find an official statement but this guys resume gives it some credibility: http://oracle-team-usa.americascup.com/team/tom-speer

The system would never be fully automatic though, it would just tell the crew what setting to use.

Yeah, but his blog "insinuates" that the SAS was the reason they started winning 10 days ago. The reader can interpret it wrong and it gets lost in translation through the web. Watch the presser, they talk about what changes were made. Also listen to Coutts in the podcast.


Philip
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Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: P.M.] #265266
09/26/13 08:29 AM
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Anybody watch The Today Show this morning? Spithill and guys were interviewed after partying all night without sleep, and it showed. Good for them, wish I was there with them.


Philip
USA #1006
Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed [Re: Tony_F18] #265267
09/26/13 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Originally Posted by PTP
Originally Posted by Tony_F18
Computer science wins the 34th America's Cup

Quote
Well it wasn't the result we wanted but today we finally learned what won the America's Cup - it was computer science. No I don't mean Oracle (though of course Oracle Team USA did win). I mean Oracle's Speed Augmentation System (SAS). This is an automated computer controlled fly-by-wire system that adjusts Oracle's hydrofoils automatically. Team New Zealand's hydrofoils are adjusted manually by a crew member. Apparently Boeing helped OTUSA with the technology, which is essentially the same as the fly-by-wire systems that continually adjust the flight surfaces of modern aircraft. This explains the remarkable speed gains that OTUSA have shown in the last 10 days, effectively locking the Kiwi's out of the cup. The SAS just gives OTUSA a more stable foiling platform and stability equals speed. So far other that what the TV commentators have been saying I've been unable to find any details of the system online, but I'll keep looking.


is there anything more official about this or just standard internet bs?
It would explain a lot, but not buying it until I hear something more reliable.

Didnt find an official statement but this guys resume gives it some credibility: http://oracle-team-usa.americascup.com/team/tom-speer

The system would never be fully automatic though, it would just tell the crew what setting to use.


Tom is an aerodynamics guy, not a controls guy. The fields are linked, and Tom is a genius in many ways, but they would need additional expertise to get the automatic foil control implemented. All is doable with enough $$$


Scorpion F18
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