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Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: waterbug_wpb] #265301
09/26/13 11:26 AM
09/26/13 11:26 AM
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Naples, FL
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I almost gave you a call yesterday Timbo, as I gazed across your lake and saw some ripples (was in a meeting). Next time I'll bring my harness..

The value I see in the USS membership fee is (hopefully) youth development. Adding new blood to regatta entry lists can only serve to benefit everyone by bringing potential new/used boat buyers, crew, money (tourist development, etc) and turnout.


Jay

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: waterbug_wpb] #265303
09/26/13 11:35 AM
09/26/13 11:35 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I almost gave you a call yesterday Timbo, as I gazed across your lake and saw some ripples (was in a meeting). Next time I'll bring my harness..

The value I see in the USS membership fee is (hopefully) youth development. Adding new blood to regatta entry lists can only serve to benefit everyone by bringing potential new/used boat buyers, crew, money (tourist development, etc) and turnout.


I've got two extra harnesses, and two extra boats! You were in Sebring yesterday? It rained most of the day, today started out sunny but we just had two big lines of showers come overhead, now it looks like the front is coming so it may (fianally) start drying out, I hope.

Of course it will be beautiful tomorrow through next Monday, because I've go to go to WORK all weekend, again! I expect as soon as I get home, it'll be raining again! If the rain holds off I'll be out back in a few minutes, I'm just watching the Tampa radar to see what's coming next.

Here's the link to the radar, just click and drag it around to where you are, works all over the USA;

http://tbo.com/weather/local/interactive-radar/?


Blade F16
#777
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: Timbo] #265386
09/27/13 08:56 AM
09/27/13 08:56 AM
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brucat Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Timbo
Mike, if you want to get more people to join, first you have to answer this simple question (a question I've heard too many times at regattas):

What's in it for me?


This is exactly my goal. Can't do it alone, and I'm not willing to dictate, so I'm trying to build consensus, which is proving to be a challenge. I think we have enough common points to be able to see this through.

Mike

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265392
09/27/13 09:22 AM
09/27/13 09:22 AM
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Naples, FL
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what would I want for $60 of my membership?

The sticker is nice, and I think it used to allow me to register for events that a non-member wouldn't have access to...

I never used the discounts or the insurance...

but if that $60 goes toward training PRO/RC, developing youth sailing, and stuff like that (which I may never see directly) I'd say that's good..


Jay

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265396
09/27/13 09:45 AM
09/27/13 09:45 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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Here's some things I'd like to see US Sailing provide:

1. access to cheap butt boat insurance
2. access to every US Sailing Center's boats, in the country, where I could walk in, show my card and rent one of their sailboats on the spot, with no BS about liability insurance or taking a class, etc. (I was able to do this on layovers in England, where I joined the RYA)

The problem is, it becomes a Chicken or the Egg type thing. To get more members, you need to offer more stuff, but more stuff costs more money, which you need more members to provide. So how do you get more members to join and spend money, if you don't have much to offer?

You'll need a deep pocket donor to get it started, call Larry. Give him a lifetime membership, tell him you want to start and promote more kids multihull programs, and buy some Hobie Waves and H16's, etc.

I hate most traditional Yacht Clubs, because most of them hate Catamarans. Maybe this AC will change some of their opinions, but I'm not holding my breath. I doubt most of them would allow you to park 10 Hobie 16's or Waves on their beach, if they even have a beach. US Sailing needs to have it's own sites, away from the stuffy traditional, Opti Only type Yacht Clubs.


Blade F16
#777
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265399
09/27/13 09:47 AM
09/27/13 09:47 AM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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Timbo - Surely your #2 is based on a higher membership level than $60/year, right?


Tom
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265401
09/27/13 09:50 AM
09/27/13 09:50 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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It cost me about $30 to join the Royal Yachting Assn. back in about 1996, then when I rented a boat, I also paid about $30 for that, they threw in a wetsuit for free! After a day of racing with them, they bought me beer at their -on site- pub!

They know how to do it RIGHT!

The RYA probably gets some Government support $$, you'd have to ask one of the Brits about that.

I'd gladly pay $100/yr. or more, if I could then walk up to the US Sailing Center in Seattle, or San Diego, or Miami, or Sarasota, show them my card, throw them $30, rig up a Hobie 16 or a Laser, and go sailing. I tried doing that some years ago at the Martin County Sailing Center (Stuart, FL area). They had a couple Hobie 16 sitting there, unused. I asked if I could take one out for an hour or so...

They said not NO, but HELL NO! "First, you have to join the Club, then you have to take a learn to sail course, to be certified, then you can only sail on the days when we have a chase boat available..."

Yeah, right, see ya.


Blade F16
#777
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: Timbo] #265404
09/27/13 10:02 AM
09/27/13 10:02 AM
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Naples, FL
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#1 is easy too... it's all based on underwriting. how much cheaper can you get. If $250 a year for your F16 is expensive, you're in the wrong boat.

Regatta liability would be cheaper for PRO/RC as well if each and every entrant carried appropriate insurance. And if we'd stop trying to sue everyone else for our own mistakes/bad decisions, insurance would be much cheaper than it is.

(yeah, I've got an axe to grind. Just saw a claimant shake down a club for $80,000 because she tripped in the sand NEARBY an event and claimed she needed knee surgery. Her position was that "were it not for the presence of the event, I would not have been walking there... Her BAL of 0.15 apparently wasn't relevant, nor was her surgeon's knee surgery recommendation TWO MONTHS BEFORE THE EVENT)

Still, $1,000 per year for an organizer to obtain $1 MILLION (USD) protection isn't that horrible in the grand scheme of things. If competitors weren't so cheap as to complain about a $100 entry fee for a 4-5 day regatta...

and with #2, it's just like any other boating club. You could certainly start one yourself and then offer USS members a discount rental fee? Heck, I'd pay $30 per hour to take a boat out somewhere... I'd even do the coursework to get the certification card you mentioned. Most charter operations have similar requirements...

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 09/27/13 10:04 AM.

Jay

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265406
09/27/13 10:12 AM
09/27/13 10:12 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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The RYA guys were great, they told me that to get their certification card, I was supposed to take the full course and a written test, which they did give me. I sat at the bar taking the test, talking with the two guys who were running the shop, about my sailing background, handed them the written test when I was done, they quickly scanned it and said, "OK so let's go get you on a boat!" Great guys, I had lots of fun racing with one of their student classes, on a Laser Pico.

After the first race, (which I won by a wide margin) the guy in the motorboat says, "You've done this before!"

Yeah, once or twice.

So they gave me my RYA card that day, which allows you to go to any RYA site and rent a boat, no BS.


Blade F16
#777
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265414
09/27/13 12:06 PM
09/27/13 12:06 PM
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brucat Offline OP
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What Brits do we have here that can explain the work behind the scene to support this?

The certification would be the easy part. US Sailing already has certification programs, including for power boats; so it shouldn't be that hard to model that for cats. Of course, it will need to be administered and organized locally, so again, we'd need volunteers.

I'll ask Jack about putting something other than N17s at the US Sailing sites, but that would require a bunch of money, and may be a long-term goal.

Mike

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265417
09/27/13 12:35 PM
09/27/13 12:35 PM
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SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
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Could there be a network or association of clubs that do this that's somehow tied into US Sailing, with some liability mitigation and/or certification process?

My club, CSYC on Lk St. Clair, now has a club Wave and Tiger and looking to get something in between (H16 or T2 or Nacra500 or...). As someone who travels frequently for business, it would be nice to have some reciprocity arrangement set up for boat use/rental at other locations.

FWIW, have not even mentioned such an idea to CSYC officers, but having a 3rd party help facilitate and reduce both risk and cost would certainly help it get off the ground.



Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: rehmbo] #265420
09/27/13 01:42 PM
09/27/13 01:42 PM
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
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Is USS a non-profit? Why not donate your boat and get a tax write-off while helping build a fleet for use by members?

And what contribution should paper-clubs make toward the effort?


Jay

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: Timbo] #265424
09/27/13 04:24 PM
09/27/13 04:24 PM
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Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo
Here's some things I'd like to see US Sailing provide:

1. access to cheap butt boat insurance
2. access to every US Sailing Center's boats, in the country, where I could walk in, show my card and rent one of their sailboats on the spot, with no BS about liability insurance or taking a class, etc. (I was able to do this on layovers in England, where I joined the RYA)

The problem is, it becomes a Chicken or the Egg type thing. To get more members, you need to offer more stuff, but more stuff costs more money, which you need more members to provide. So how do you get more members to join and spend money, if you don't have much to offer?

You'll need a deep pocket donor to get it started, call Larry. Give him a lifetime membership, tell him you want to start and promote more kids multihull programs, and buy some Hobie Waves and H16's, etc.

I hate most traditional Yacht Clubs, because most of them hate Catamarans. Maybe this AC will change some of their opinions, but I'm not holding my breath. I doubt most of them would allow you to park 10 Hobie 16's or Waves on their beach, if they even have a beach. US Sailing needs to have it's own sites, away from the stuffy traditional, Opti Only type Yacht Clubs.


Hey Tim, we have a US SAILING Center in Seattle, Sail Sand Point www.sailsandpoint.org There are six H-16's and seven Waves, ready, mast up and just 50ft from Lake Washington. Any time you or any of our Catsailors are in the area, we can get you on the water. No test required, just mention my name, and I can vouch for you.

Caleb

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265425
09/27/13 04:43 PM
09/27/13 04:43 PM
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brucat Offline OP
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Caleb, how many such centers exist, and how many have cats?

Mike

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: H17cat] #265426
09/27/13 05:51 PM
09/27/13 05:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
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Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted by H17cat
Originally Posted by Timbo
Here's some things I'd like to see US Sailing provide:

1. access to cheap butt boat insurance
2. access to every US Sailing Center's boats, in the country, where I could walk in, show my card and rent one of their sailboats on the spot, with no BS about liability insurance or taking a class, etc. (I was able to do this on layovers in England, where I joined the RYA)

The problem is, it becomes a Chicken or the Egg type thing. To get more members, you need to offer more stuff, but more stuff costs more money, which you need more members to provide. So how do you get more members to join and spend money, if you don't have much to offer?

You'll need a deep pocket donor to get it started, call Larry. Give him a lifetime membership, tell him you want to start and promote more kids multihull programs, and buy some Hobie Waves and H16's, etc.

I hate most traditional Yacht Clubs, because most of them hate Catamarans. Maybe this AC will change some of their opinions, but I'm not holding my breath. I doubt most of them would allow you to park 10 Hobie 16's or Waves on their beach, if they even have a beach. US Sailing needs to have it's own sites, away from the stuffy traditional, Opti Only type Yacht Clubs.


Hey Tim, we have a US SAILING Center in Seattle, Sail Sand Point www.sailsandpoint.org There are six H-16's and seven Waves, ready, mast up and just 50ft from Lake Washington. Any time you or any of our Catsailors are in the area, we can get you on the water. No test required, just mention my name, and I can vouch for you.

Caleb


Thanks for the offer Caleb, if/when I get to Seattle agian I will look you up. Do you mind if I tell my Delta Pilot friends about your club? Delta has a pilot base in SEA now, with the North West merger, and they are going to increase the size of the base, adding more flights, more pilots, etc. Hopefuly I can get you some more club members.

SEA was always one of my favorite layovers, lots of great stuff to see and do there. That's also where I got addicted to Starbucks and Red Hook beer of course, back in about 1989!


Blade F16
#777
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: Timbo] #265428
09/27/13 10:16 PM
09/27/13 10:16 PM
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Issaquah, WA, USA
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Tim, everyone is welcome to sail at Sail Sand Point in Seattle. See www.sailsandpoint.org for details on boat check out and costs. I did get some static from our Administrative Director about the mention my name comment. But, if you are coming to Seattle, just let me know prior, and tell me about your experience in sailing cats. I know many of you. I can then let the Level 1 instructor know you are qualified. This way you can avoid the required righting drill. Besides, I have seen many of you do this before while we were racing.

Caleb

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265429
09/27/13 10:19 PM
09/27/13 10:19 PM
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Issaquah, WA, USA
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Mike, not sure. Perhaps you can find out at the AGM.
Caleb

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265444
09/28/13 10:07 AM
09/28/13 10:07 AM
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brucat Offline OP
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On my list of questions...

Mike

Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: H17cat] #265457
09/29/13 10:00 AM
09/29/13 10:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Originally Posted by H17cat
Tim, everyone is welcome to sail at Sail Sand Point in Seattle. See www.sailsandpoint.org for details on boat check out and costs. I did get some static from our Administrative Director about the mention my name comment. But, if you are coming to Seattle, just let me know prior, and tell me about your experience in sailing cats. I know many of you. I can then let the Level 1 instructor know you are qualified. This way you can avoid the required righting drill. Besides, I have seen many of you do this before while we were racing.

Caleb


Thanks Caleb, I'm in Dubai at the moment and don't often get to SEA any more, but if/when I do, I'll let you know and try to get out to your club. I'll also give the link to Sandpoint to my budds who are based in SEA, or who layover there.



Blade F16
#777
Re: US SAILING MULTIHULL RACING COMMITTEE ANNUAL MEETING 2013 [Re: brucat] #265472
09/30/13 09:04 AM
09/30/13 09:04 AM

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xanderwess
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xanderwess
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I have taken advantage of Caleb's generocity and took my nieces and nephew Wave sailing on Lake Wash last time we visited Seattle. Super place.

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