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Full foiling Nacra #267796
12/17/13 04:17 PM
12/17/13 04:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline OP
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TEAMVMG  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,203
uk
Have you guys seen this yet?

I just poached it from SA [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjVEOoNPXWc#t=6[/video]


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267798
12/17/13 05:01 PM
12/17/13 05:01 PM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
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M



30knots?

come on .....

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267799
12/17/13 06:26 PM
12/17/13 06:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Tony_F18  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 2,584
+31NL

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: ] #267800
12/17/13 06:52 PM
12/17/13 06:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by MN3
30knots?

come on .....


I dunno man...these guys are flying on this 18 footer:



Jake Kohl
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267802
12/17/13 08:45 PM
12/17/13 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taJYT4eAiWE

Same boat but under spinnaker, notice that instead of the Nacra C shaped boards, he's using more of a lazy L shape dagger, and T rudders, which I'm guessing have to be inserted from below, which would be a huge PITA when launching off the beach.

BUT...if they could come up with a simple way to insert the boards/rudders and if they build the entire boat of Carbon, it could be a game changer r.e. beach cat speeds. Nobody could afford one, but it would be a hellofa fast boat!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267807
12/18/13 02:18 AM
12/18/13 02:18 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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West coast of Norway
With the boat stored at a sailing club the T-foil rudders could be left in place.
Rudderheads could be built to kick up above the stern for easier insertion of the blades.

With all the development going on towards full foiling on cats (and Lasers and their grandmother) I think we might be seeing the future of beachcats.

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: Timbo] #267810
12/18/13 08:22 AM
12/18/13 08:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
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Mlcreek Offline
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Hernando, Florida
Originally Posted by Timbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taJYT4eAiWE

Same boat but under spinnaker, notice that instead of the Nacra C shaped boards, he's using more of a lazy L shape dagger, and T rudders, which I'm guessing have to be inserted from below, which would be a huge PITA when launching off the beach.



BUT...if they could come up with a simple way to insert the boards/rudders and if they build the entire boat of Carbon, it could be a game changer r.e. beach cat speeds. Nobody could afford one, but it would be a hellofa fast boat!


Or make the rudder brackets two piece that bolt together on the beach. Then you could after market to fit existing boats, using existing bolt holes.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: Mlcreek] #267817
12/18/13 11:05 AM
12/18/13 11:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
β€œan island in the Pacific.β€...
hobie1616 Offline
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β€œan island in the Pacific.β€...
Any idea of an approximate price?


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: hobie1616] #267818
12/18/13 11:12 AM
12/18/13 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 139
Hernando, Florida
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Mlcreek Offline
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Hernando, Florida
Originally Posted by hobie1616
Any idea of an approximate price?


Oh ideas are free......material is something else.


Forrest
I-20
USA 645

" There ain't enough rum in the drum!"
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267820
12/18/13 12:42 PM
12/18/13 12:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
sail7seas Offline
addict
sail7seas  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 465
FL
Phantom 44K,from SA.

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267822
12/18/13 12:59 PM
12/18/13 12:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Greenville SC
The phantom is €26,000 which is about $33,000.

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: bacho] #267825
12/18/13 01:21 PM
12/18/13 01:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by bacho
The phantom is €26,000 which is about $33,000.


The "foiling" fantom?


Jake Kohl
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: Jake] #267827
12/18/13 02:06 PM
12/18/13 02:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
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waynemarlow Offline
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I think you guys might have missed the type of boat in the very first few seconds of the vid, sssshhhh its the F16 Nacra.

Its being reported elsewhere on the web that an aftermarket upgrade kit of new boards and modified case will allow the F16 to also foil. Mmmm shake those money trees boys and all those wishes may come true.

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: waynemarlow] #267828
12/18/13 02:21 PM
12/18/13 02:21 PM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
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M



it very clearly says Carbon 20 on the side of the boat
Originally Posted by waynemarlow
I think you guys might have missed the type of boat in the very first few seconds of the vid, sssshhhh its the F16 Nacra

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: ] #267830
12/18/13 02:42 PM
12/18/13 02:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
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waynemarlow Offline
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Posts: 893
Yes I did a double take first on the fact that it was a solo sailor and thought aha F16, then saw the F20 logo and thought nah F20 but then looked again and the size of the sailor in relation to the boat is really big. Then the vid flashes to the F20 and the sailors look more in perspective. Probably a trick of viewing angle but then on the F16 forum there are two photos of an F16 with curved boards.

Mmmm very iteresting as the F16 certainly has enough horsepower ( power to weight ) to probably be a pretty good candidate for foils.I must get my 2001 Stealth T foils out of the cupboard.

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: Jake] #267832
12/18/13 03:47 PM
12/18/13 03:47 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by bacho
The phantom is €26,000 which is about $33,000.


The "foiling" fantom?


Yes apparently that is and old number. That was the price they announced in October/November. I see they now say €28,260 or about $38,000

http://www.sail-innovation.com/products/boats/flying-phantom/

Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: bacho] #267836
12/18/13 07:02 PM
12/18/13 07:02 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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South Carolina
This is kind of interesting. When was the last time we saw a boat technology like this develop into a high dollar one-off novelty item? I came on the scene about the time the spin boats were coming out - were they that way or were there just a bunch of early adopters and "poof" there were spin classes?

You could probably look at the Hobie 18SX as this kind of boat. It was an outlier...an adaptation of an existing platform for the new cutting edge technology. I bet people then were thinking what I'm thinking now..."well, that will put more of our sport out of the reach of the common or new sailor" and "I don't see myself getting into THAT". To some extent, the development and evolution to the spinnaker boats we have today did some of that. Our entry level classes (H16 aside) are now all but non-existent.

The big drawback I see for the foiling sailing is the lake sailing I mostly do. We watched Bora come to "train" on his moth on Lake Keowee (his mother lives in the area) and even he had a really difficult time keeping up with the shifty breeze and spent a lot of time in and out of the water. Short of a whole lot of righting practice, I'm not sure he gained much from the experience. I can't imagine trying to race a foiling cat in our normal conditions (or is that what they said about spinnakers too?) ;-)


Jake Kohl
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267839
12/18/13 08:40 PM
12/18/13 08:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Look what they've done to an old Laser!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxb6BRe7Weo

If they can figure it out, surely we can too, and for a heck of a lot less than $38,000.



Blade F16
#777
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: TEAMVMG] #267840
12/18/13 08:46 PM
12/18/13 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,048
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
The boat specs from the Flying Phantom website above:

The boat is not just a modified F18 but it is entirely designed to foil, the only common part is the shape of the hulls. The Flying Phantom is wider (3m) and lighter (165kg).

After an extensive of different foils and rudders configurations, we came up with a combination of "L" shaped foils and "T" shaped rudders, providing pitch and heave stability in full flight but also being competitive in light winds.

The carbon / honeycomb / epoxy hulls in combination with a carbon tapered mast built in an autoclave result in significant weight reduction, the increased total beam improves the stability while foiling.



Foiling cats are the future of our sport and offer new sensations and previously unknown performance levels, foiling from 7 knots of wind and able to reach more than 30 knots above the water.

The revolution is on, realize your dream, fly above the water !

Specifications;

Design team: Martin Fischer

Development team: Alex Udin, Franck Cammas and Groupama sailing team

Class: One Design

Lenght: 5,52m / 18"

Width: 3,00m

Weight: 165kg

Mast: Tapered / Carbon autoclaved / 9,5m

Appendices: T-foil rudders +L-shape foiling dagger boards carbon autoclaved

Hulls construction: Carbon fiber / honeycomb sandwich / epoxy

Main: SI VXM Carbon Technora membrane / 18sqm with mast

Jib: SI VXM Carbon Technora membrane/ 5,5sqm

Gennaker: SI Polyester / 24sqm

Max speed: + 30 knots



Price: 28 260 Euros ex tax

Seems they did build it out of carbon, and the mast is carbon, and they widened it too, no wonder the price went wayyyy up, but $38K?? Ouch!

If you really wanted to "Fly above the water", you could be flying aerobatics in a nice airplane or going 200 knots for that kind of money!

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=838346&ZOOM=e28aebc9ec06265ee5b4f895d12131f1


Blade F16
#777
Re: Full foiling Nacra [Re: Jake] #267844
12/18/13 09:56 PM
12/18/13 09:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Jake
I think it is easy to look at the boats and think they led the parade.

In hindsight, I believe that there were notable distance races that people wanted to compete, win and set records. Events drive the technology we use.
The pursuit of these trophies drove the interest in more and faster. The Worrel 1000 was the big driver of course...eg... we used Worrel chutes and then mere mortals like ourselves got into the spin game with events like the New England 100, the Statue of liberty, Down the Bay, and of course the Florida distance races. Eventually, you got the N20 class racing buoys along with Hobie Tigers and F18's.

The world changed.. the super boats, like the M20 and the current Nacra Carbon 20 and the current foiling boats all need a couple of big events that people want to do. Most of the races still exist.... still the super boats have not taken off in the market place, in part because of the price tag... but still... the question... What are you going to do with it... does not have a great answer... The interest in the distance races has dropped year after year.

So.... Do you think anyone will try and foil their way through the steeple chase and set a new record?


crac.sailregattas.com
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