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Hobie Worlds #268992
02/01/14 01:31 AM
02/01/14 01:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline OP
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Issaquah, WA, USA

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: H17cat] #268997
02/01/14 02:38 PM
02/01/14 02:38 PM
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brucat Offline
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Black flag for a 40 boat fleet? Feisty group of Masters...

Mike

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: brucat] #268998
02/02/14 12:10 AM
02/02/14 12:10 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline OP
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Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: H17cat] #269041
02/03/14 11:35 AM
02/03/14 11:35 AM
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Upwards of 30 knots for the Masters! Hope they don't use up all the good wind before the Open event! Seems to happen way too often around here...

Mike

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: brucat] #269352
02/14/14 12:02 AM
02/14/14 12:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline OP
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Four USA Teams in the Finals, Go Yanks!
http://hobieworlds.com/hobie16-worlds/results-2

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: H17cat] #269418
02/16/14 01:29 AM
02/16/14 01:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 917
Issaquah, WA, USA
H17cat Offline OP
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Final results http://hobieworlds.com/hobie16-worlds/results-2
Congrats to Gavin Colby and Josie Mark, new World Champions.

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: H17cat] #269602
02/21/14 01:40 PM
02/21/14 01:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252
California
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California
Wrap up... http://www.hobieworlds.com

This was the largest ever Hobie 16 Worlds event. 15 days of sailing, 901 sailors, 451 team entries from 24 countries on 6 continents. We had 60 new 16s (56 per race and 4 for spare).

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Youth sailing is strong and the woman sailors were many! Awesome parties and after-sailing pub crawls.

What a great location! Awesome beaches, perfect windy conditions (sometimes too windy!) Friendly locals. Great factory support. This one is in the record books of my favorite ever.


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Matt Miller
Hobie Cat Company
Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: H17cat] #269622
02/22/14 11:52 AM
02/22/14 11:52 AM
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Any insight as to why the other countries seem to spank us at these events? What can we do to improve our results?

Mike

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: H17cat] #269627
02/22/14 06:29 PM
02/22/14 06:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
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Yeah, nobody in the US sails.


I'm boatless.
Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: Karl_Brogger] #269628
02/22/14 08:08 PM
02/22/14 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 334
Thunder Bay ON CAN
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mmadge Offline
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Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Yeah, nobody in the US sails.

Well not quite,but close.The Top guys Sail a lot more in those conditions,against very top competition,much more often.
In fact there was a Week long training session in New Caledonia just prior to the Worlds.A lot of the top guys were at it and they had big winds all Week.
For most of the North American guys,this was there first time back on the boat since October.
How to get better,training sessions like the one they had in Caledonia.Bring in the top guys from North America and hire Colby as the Coach.Also have it in a place where there is big winds.Then send the top guys to Sail the Europeans, Australian and Brazilian
Not taking anything away from Jeff Alter,but when he is still the top guy from North America,time to start working on some young guys.

Last edited by mmadge; 02/22/14 08:11 PM.
Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: mmadge] #269629
02/22/14 10:42 PM
02/22/14 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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None of the semis or finals were in "big winds". The most we ever saw consistently at the pin was high teens, and most of the finals were less than 15 kts. (Compared to the Masters, when we had 35+ one day - and the plug was pulled at ~25 kts when boats and people started to break.)

The US teams were getting crappy starts - even Jeff Alter. We don't get practice with 56 boat starts, and you don't get that at a training camp, either.

What I did witness was appalling lack of sportsmanship, ignorance of the rules and downright bullying, especially on the part of some of the New Calendonian teams.

Last edited by mbounds; 02/22/14 10:45 PM.
Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: mbounds] #269635
02/23/14 06:05 AM
02/23/14 06:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 334
Thunder Bay ON CAN
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mmadge Offline
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There is only one maybe Two Hobie 16 Regattas with 56 boat starts,the Europeans and the maybe ( not lately) the Australian Nationals.
You don,t need to have 56 boats to practice or get good at starting.When was the last time Colby raced against that many boats.
How many North American teams actually practice?There is a Novel idea,set up a mark and actually ,practice ,starting stopping,backing up sitting in one spot lots of things you can do on your own.
Pretty hard to go down to a Worlds in the middle of Winter ,with zero time on the boat and expect great results.I am actually impressed with the number of NA teams that made the final.How about Pat Porter finishing top 20 in one race.That is pretty darn good at any age.
I can not speak of what went on there in terms of Bullying,but the start line in any big Event is not for the Meek.Try starting in a 100 boat Laser Fleet.You have to be aggressive and know the Rules and expect some bumper car mentality.In a big fleet there is always marshmallows out there.Know who they are and start next to them.If you see the Top guys starting beside you,then you are probably the marshmallow.

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: mmadge] #269637
02/23/14 08:18 AM
02/23/14 08:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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When I mentioned bullying, unsportsmanlike conduct and rules ignorance, I wasn't referring to the starts. I saw that at the finishes - especially towards the people coming in from the left (on port tack) who were entitled to room at the pin, but who were shut out by people screaming "starboard!" This was the result:
[Linked Image]
After hitting the pin, spinning us sideways and causing a conflagration (boat 21 was forced wide and lost 10 boats getting back), boat 13 just sailed to the beach without doing anything (protesting the boat that forced her into the mark, a circle, refinishing). I had had enough and protested her - she gave a lame excuse for not protesting the other boat and was DSQ'ed in that race. The "bumper boat" mentality needs to stop.

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: mbounds] #269638
02/23/14 08:59 AM
02/23/14 08:59 AM
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Posts: 334
Thunder Bay ON CAN
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mmadge Offline
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On Water judging,don,t need judge boats all over the course.Most incidents happen at the marks.
Bumper Boat mentality needs to stop?Why would it if no one protests.Minor and unavoidable should be removed from the Rule Book (in fact I think it is removed).The general perception is that if you protest someone that you are the bad guy..Problem with our sport is so much is left to the discression of the individual.Some people want to protest every thing and some people just don,t want to be bothered protesting anything.I have raced in both situations and neither good.
The discussion was about how to make North Americans,more competitive.So if training camps don,t work and we don,t know how to start in big fleets,then the answer is?
Still not buying the fact you need to race in big fleets to be good .Fleet 204 probably puts more boats on the start line for a Fleet race and there Madcatter then any other Hobie Fleet I know of.They are actually the only guys I hear about that actually practice,work out and have Sailing related seminaries.

Last edited by mmadge; 02/23/14 09:10 AM.
Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: H17cat] #269640
02/23/14 01:22 PM
02/23/14 01:22 PM
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Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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On water judging does very little good. If anything, it causes different issues.

Having said that, judges at a finish mark are never a bad thing.

Mike

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: brucat] #269642
02/23/14 03:05 PM
02/23/14 03:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
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mmadge Offline
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O.K. Mike,I am hearing problems but no Solutions.Maybe that there is the reason some racers are better then others.Find solutions,try something different,look what other sailors or Classes are doing.What do you suggest?Still waiting to hear from Matt on how to produce better Racers.
Here is another suggestion,get into a Laser or other One Design Class that is popular in your area and Race with them.Invaluable to switch Classes once in a while.

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: mbounds] #269647
02/23/14 07:41 PM
02/23/14 07:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 490
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Circa 1988, We staged the Hobie 18 Nationals at Key Sailing on Pensacola Beach as a warm - up event for the Alter Cup in Fort Walton.

Picture Carlton with a big boa wrapped around his neck and shoulders. Kirk, eventually had to lose the snake because of the rat population which quickly grew since they were the favorite food for the snake.

The course outlay for the regatta was close to the beach and Quietwater Pier in an early attempt at "stadium viewing." Due to the prevailing weather system port tack into the leeward mark was the favored lane.

By 3 AM one morning we had thrown out a starboard tacker for running into three boats coming in on port tack. He asked me what I would have done in his case.

I replied, "since I was already overstanding, I would have gybed on to port and become the inside boat at the mark."

Starboard tack does not always prevail in a jury deliberation. Do not push it... the poor fellow on starboard knocked two boats out of the regatta, and there was much work to do on one of the boats for the upcoming Alter Cup. Of course; that gentleman lost his deposit and had to become entangled with his insurance company.

Do not push it... knowledge of the rules and common sense go a long way to protect one from self inflicted horror and costly lack of good judgment.

Most recent case: Aberdeen and Groupama - Extreme Sailing Series, Singapore

Key West: A gate mark boat was struck by four J 80s in one rounding - I wonder what role the overlaps, tacks, and boat location might have been... The mark boat operator was slow to react.. I would like to see the outcome of that redress, if there was one.

"The further ahead you look, the further ahead you get."

Bert


Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: mmadge] #269651
02/23/14 10:44 PM
02/23/14 10:44 PM
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brucat Offline
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Originally Posted by mmadge
O.K. Mike,I am hearing problems but no Solutions.Maybe that there is the reason some racers are better then others.Find solutions,try something different,look what other sailors or Classes are doing.What do you suggest?Still waiting to hear from Matt on how to produce better Racers.
Here is another suggestion,get into a Laser or other One Design Class that is popular in your area and Race with them.Invaluable to switch Classes once in a while.


I'm sorry, but WHAT??? I'm the one who opened the question. I wasn't there, so I don't know what we're missing; I'm asking those that were.

Matt brought up an excellent point about sportsmanship, but obviously, that's not the reason for the US results. I wouldn't discount his comment about sailing in big fleets. It changes not only your starting strategy, but just about every single decision you make on the course.

You suggested having more judging on the water as a way to curb cheating, but I can tell you from personal experience that it's at best a Band-Aid, and can be more of a hindrance to sportsmanship and self-policing. Many people tend to expect the judges to do the protesting, others use on-water judges (and umpires) as a way to push the rules even further: If they're not flagged, they push it harder next time.

But, like you, I am more interested in ways to improve the results.

Mike

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: mbounds] #269652
02/23/14 11:08 PM
02/23/14 11:08 PM
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brucat Offline
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Originally Posted by mbounds
When I mentioned bullying, unsportsmanlike conduct and rules ignorance, I wasn't referring to the starts. I saw that at the finishes - especially towards the people coming in from the left (on port tack) who were entitled to room at the pin, but who were shut out by people screaming "starboard!" This was the result:
[Linked Image]
After hitting the pin, spinning us sideways and causing a conflagration (boat 21 was forced wide and lost 10 boats getting back), boat 13 just sailed to the beach without doing anything (protesting the boat that forced her into the mark, a circle, refinishing). I had had enough and protested her - she gave a lame excuse for not protesting the other boat and was DSQ'ed in that race. The "bumper boat" mentality needs to stop.


Matt, I agree with that last sentence 100%, but why wasn't the boat that fouled 13 brought into the room and also DSQ?

Mike

Re: Hobie Worlds [Re: brucat] #269655
02/24/14 04:23 AM
02/24/14 04:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Detroit, MI
Mike L. - the skipper of 13 couldn't identify the boat that fouled her (it wasn't 53 - the photo was taken about 10 seconds after the incident started. 53 was well back at the time of the incident). We (the RC) probably could have sussed it out, but we felt that boat-on-boat incidents should be handled between the boats without the RC injecting themselves into the incident (we were happy to be witnesses to anything we saw).

BTW, the finish tape from that incident is pretty funny. Lots of "Look out!", "$hit!!!" and muffled sounds of us heading to the back of the boat, then back up to free 13 from the anchor line (she hooked it with her bow, even though it was weighted straight down).

Mike M. - you will be waiting a long time for suggestions from me on improving North America's performance at worlds - like forever. The performance of the NA team at world events affects ~ 20 people. There are a lot more important things - like keeping the sport alive in NA - that we need to focus on.

When there's no one left sailing Hobie 16s in NA, the worlds won't matter to anyone here.

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