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Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270620
03/25/14 09:13 AM
03/25/14 09:13 AM
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This is just getting stupider by the minute this morning. Malaysia spent the past 24 hours basically reversing everything they've said up to now, stating that the pilots acted in a manner consistent with trying to save the plane after an event (Timbo's theory), and that the plane must be in the ocean with no survivors. They offered $5,000 (yes, five thousand) dollars for each victim. Meanwhile, China is calling BS and demanding proof of the crash...

Pray for the families, I don't expect them to ever get the truth about what has become of their loved ones.

Mike

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: brucat] #270626
03/25/14 10:09 AM
03/25/14 10:09 AM
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Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by brucat
This is just getting stupider by the minute this morning. Malaysia spent the past 24 hours basically reversing everything they've said up to now, stating that the pilots acted in a manner consistent with trying to save the plane after an event (Timbo's theory), and that the plane must be in the ocean with no survivors. They offered $5,000 (yes, five thousand) dollars for each victim. Meanwhile, China is calling BS and demanding proof of the crash...

Pray for the families, I don't expect them to ever get the truth about what has become of their loved ones.

Mike


With everything I've read, it sounds like this is the truth. I read some detail this morning about the technique that the satellite companies used to track the plane. Basically, they came up with a way (never done before) to measure the Doppler effect of the signals they received from the plane to get a reasonably accurate position on it when it was communicating. They looked at nanosecond variations in the signal timing. The signals were 'heard' from more than one satellite and they were able to triangulate it's path and position with a relatively high level of accuracy in a method that has never been used before with these kind of signals. That mathematical analysis actually went under peer review and was scientifically verified before it was announced. They had been working on this for more than a week and they were able to unquestionably eliminate the northern corridor as a possible path. Taking that data and the fuel range of the plane seems to very firmly point to it crash landing in the Indian ocean.


Jake Kohl
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270629
03/25/14 10:27 AM
03/25/14 10:27 AM
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If it were your relatives, would that be enough proof, or would you want physical evidence?

For me, if it weren't for all of these half-schemed theories over the past few weeks, this data would probably help in lieu of evidence. However, at this point, I'd be wanting wreckage. Of course, I'd have a very difficult time believing anyone at this point, and it would be very difficult to trust that any "evidence" wasn't fabricated.

Mike

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270633
03/25/14 11:27 AM
03/25/14 11:27 AM
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Did I mention it's about money? Here come the sharks:


Families Deserve Fair Payout From $1.5 Billion Policy: Lawyer





By Sigi de Vos and Henry Austin


LONDON -- The families of those aboard missing Flight 370 deserve a fair payout from the $1.5 billion insurance policy held by Malaysia Airlines for their "appalling treatment," a London lawyer representing some of them said Tuesday.

“We’ll be giving advice to the families on what is best for their individual circumstances,” said James Healy-Pratt, a partner at Stewart's Law LLP. He is representing families from a number of countries.


The airline must pay the families of those on board around $176,000 each, under a multilateral treaty known as the Montreal Convention, and said it had already given relatives $5,000 per passenger in compensation.

But relatives can also sue for further damages — and it is these further pay-outs that experts warn could vary widely.




Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270634
03/25/14 11:29 AM
03/25/14 11:29 AM
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pgp Offline
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mmm, If I got on an airplane would it be a reasonable expectation to disappear off the face of the earth?


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270636
03/25/14 11:40 AM
03/25/14 11:40 AM
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I'm pretty sure they are on the face of the earth...somewhere. Still, a lot more people die just walking across the street, or driving to work, than in airline accidents.


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270637
03/25/14 11:56 AM
03/25/14 11:56 AM
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brucat Offline
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The lawyers always LINE UP to get their third...

What is appalling is when the process turns into whose life is more valued than another, and the size of the payout is expected to match. 9/11 showed that ugly side of our society.

Edit: I'm no communist or socialist, and have no problem with people working harder/smarter and earning more than others, buying extra insurance, etc., but when a tragedy happens and wipes out a bunch of folks, if there's a pot of money to pay claims, they're all equally dead.

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 03/25/14 12:01 PM.
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270638
03/25/14 11:58 AM
03/25/14 11:58 AM
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The artful dodger, good move.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270672
03/25/14 09:14 PM
03/25/14 09:14 PM
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Here's Jon Stewart's take on the CNN coverage, in case you missed it:

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/6lqtfn/the-curious-case-of-flight-370


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270673
03/25/14 09:22 PM
03/25/14 09:22 PM
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Thanks Timbo, I did miss that. Wow, I thought shadowing was ridiculous, I wasn't aware that they were discussing BLACK HOLES!!!

Mike

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270679
03/26/14 06:46 AM
03/26/14 06:46 AM
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As more information comes out, to me it seems more like a mx issue. Apparently there were two Airworthiness Directives recently issued for the 777 fleet. One had to do with internal wires in the **** crew 02 masks, which could (and did) start a fire, in the oxygen hose!

The other AD was about cracking in the fuselage skin around the SAT COM antennae mounting area, which, if not repaired, could cause a rapid decompression.

Either one of these two issues, especially the 02 hose fire in the ****, could have caused them to divert and descend, then go unconscious.


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270680
03/26/14 06:52 AM
03/26/14 06:52 AM
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Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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I am thinking someone starts renting out personal SPOT trackers for flyers.

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270681
03/26/14 06:58 AM
03/26/14 06:58 AM
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http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/...iation/Egyptairflight667_zps99936539.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh212/727Kiwi/General%20Aviation/Flight6672011_zps48f604d2.jpg

This is what the 777 with the 02 mask fire looked like afterwards, and this happened while it was sitting at the gate. Now imagine this happened in flight.


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Timbo] #270682
03/26/14 07:35 AM
03/26/14 07:35 AM
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Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Timbo
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/...iation/Egyptairflight667_zps99936539.jpg

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh212/727Kiwi/General%20Aviation/Flight6672011_zps48f604d2.jpg

This is what the 777 with the 02 mask fire looked like afterwards, and this happened while it was sitting at the gate. Now imagine this happened in flight.


Good lord, that must have been like a blow torch up there until the O2 ran out. Can you imagine if that happened in flight?


Jake Kohl
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270683
03/26/14 07:39 AM
03/26/14 07:39 AM
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Wow - there have got to be flammability standards on those materials, right? Realize that about anything will burn if you get it hot enough and have a direct flow of pure O2, but...


Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
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Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270684
03/26/14 08:03 AM
03/26/14 08:03 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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Anyone remember Swiss Air 111, in 1998? I was flying as a MD 11 First Officer at the time so it's burned into my memory. Every time we went to our annual recurrent training afterwards, we had to practice our emergency descents, fire checklists, ditching checklists, etc. These poor guys wasted 15 minutes running a smoke elimination checklist, when in about 5 minutes they could have had it on the ground in Halifax. It was as a result of this crash that our checklists and procedures all changed to; "GET IT ON THE GROUND, NOW!"

The problem with the Malaysian flight was, they didn't have a nearby airport, if it was a **** fire, but it seems they did turn back and descend, before being overcome. Then it just flew on autopilot until the fuel ran out...? Maybe.

Here's a quick refresher on Swiss Air 111:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_111

Read the whole thing if you have time, but if you don't, here's from the "Findings" near the bottom:

TSB findings

The investigation identified eleven causes and contributing factors of the crash in its final report. The first and most important was:

Aircraft certification standards for material flammability were inadequate in that they allowed the use of materials that could be ignited and sustain or propagate fire. Consequently, flammable material propagated a fire that started above the ceiling on the right side of the **** near the **** rear wall. The fire spread and intensified rapidly to the extent that it degraded aircraft systems and the **** environment, and ultimately led to the loss of control of the aircraft.[1]

Investigators identified evidence of arcing in wiring of the in-flight entertainment system network, but this did not trip the circuit breakers. The investigation was unable to confirm if this arc was the "lead event" that ignited the flammable covering on MPET insulation blankets that quickly spread across other flammable materials.[1] The crew did not recognize that a fire had started and were not warned by instruments. Once they became aware of the fire, the uncertainty of the problem made it difficult to address. The rapid spread of the fire led to the failure of key display systems, and the crew were soon rendered unable to control the aircraft. Because he had no light by which to see his controls after the displays failed, the pilot was forced to steer the plane blindly; intentionally or not, the plane swerved off course and headed back out into the Atlantic. Recovered fragments of the plane show that the heat inside the **** became so great that the ceiling started to melt. The recovered standby attitude indicator and airspeed indicators showed that the aircraft struck the water at 300 knots (560 km/h, 348 mph) in a 20 degrees nose down and 110 degree bank attitude, or almost inverted.[43] Death was instantaneous for all passengers and crew due to the impact forces and deceleration.[18]

The TSB concluded that even if the crew had been aware of the nature of the problem immediately after detection of the initial odour, and had a commenced an approach as rapidly as possible, the developing fire related conditions in the **** would have made a safe landing at Halifax impossible.[44][45]


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270687
03/26/14 09:31 AM
03/26/14 09:31 AM
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Sebring, Florida.
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Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y&list=RDGeI5ke0BENw


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Timbo] #270689
03/26/14 09:52 AM
03/26/14 09:52 AM
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Naples, FL
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I like the gearshift he uses


Jay

Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Jake] #270691
03/26/14 10:38 AM
03/26/14 10:38 AM
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Well...how else would you get it from first gear into second, third and overdrive?

There's another button for Warp Speed.

I could tell you where it is but then I'd have to kill you...


Blade F16
#777
Re: How in the world can we lose an entire jumbo jet today? [Re: Timbo] #270724
03/26/14 08:22 PM
03/26/14 08:22 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by Timbo
Well...how else would you get it from first gear into second, third and overdrive?

There's another button for Warp Speed.

I could tell you where it is but then I'd have to kill you...


I know the secret handshake, you can tell me....

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