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Re: I don't get it. [Re: ] #271000
04/01/14 04:11 PM
04/01/14 04:11 PM
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pgp Offline
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What is the average age of sailors now versus ten years ago?

Time passes.


Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: I don't get it. [Re: pgp] #271002
04/01/14 04:24 PM
04/01/14 04:24 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp
What is the average age of sailors now versus ten years ago?

Time passes.


Roger that!

And the price to play isn't cheap either...... Seemed when I was in my 20s shelling out $1800 for a boat a trailer that was competitive was doable... a stretch, but doable! Using an inflation calculator, that cost is now $4.1K about a 125% increase...

Now.. shelling $20K to be within a stones through of the finish line...???




Last edited by Ventucky Red; 04/01/14 04:28 PM.
Re: I don't get it. [Re: ] #271005
04/01/14 05:15 PM
04/01/14 05:15 PM
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pgp Offline
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I think you may be on to something. A lot of people who can afford modern, competitive boats, won't pay the price.



Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: I don't get it. [Re: ] #271007
04/01/14 05:30 PM
04/01/14 05:30 PM

X
xanderwess
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xanderwess
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How many more entrants would you have to get to offset what your getting from Hobie.....? Has anyone run the numbers...?

What are you going to do when the day comes when Hobie stops the Regatta Welfare Program? By then... to late, the "other sailors" have committed to other things..

Hobie Welfare program? I think its part of the marketing expense and keeps us where we are. I feel like I am being sucked into an internet argument about stuff I can't change.
The numbers are such that our Association has enough money to sponsor youth sailors to travel globally, so we can co-fund 6ish major event annually and pretty much help out where we need to help out.

Re: I don't get it. [Re: ] #271008
04/01/14 06:23 PM
04/01/14 06:23 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by xanderwess
How many more entrants would you have to get to offset what your getting from Hobie.....? Has anyone run the numbers...?

What are you going to do when the day comes when Hobie stops the Regatta Welfare Program? By then... to late, the "other sailors" have committed to other things..

Hobie Welfare program? I think its part of the marketing expense and keeps us where we are. I feel like I am being sucked into an internet argument about stuff I can't change.
The numbers are such that our Association has enough money to sponsor youth sailors to travel globally, so we can co-fund 6ish major event annually and pretty much help out where we need to help out.


I am not trying to suck you into an argument.. just curious to know.. And to note.. I know a thing or two about branding and marketing..it is what I do.

I know you can't change what you can't change, you make a deal with the devil, he is going to always want to get paid...

Re: I don't get it. [Re: ] #271009
04/01/14 06:39 PM
04/01/14 06:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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The hobie policy is a DEAD ISSUE... When everyone agrees that you have too many regattas on the schedule... You can't complain that the few sailors you have in your fleet who want to go to another regatta that has a flying H but can't.

Everybody needs to just give it up... there is no juice in fighting this ancient history again.

If you want to discuss a SPECIFIC CLUB that has to make a sophies choice between inviting a fleet of A cat sailors or F16 sailors who are absolutely committed to racing and the Hobie policy... I would listen.. Otherwise... there is no issue.... F18's are able to race now and the issue is the same as it ever was ... OVER SCHEDULED...

God knows that when the hobie policy was an issue and caused problems a long time ago.. ... I was a loud critic. (no surprise)...

The fact of life was that the current Hobie policy has had minimal to NO impact on events around the country...I've looked into it and said so at the time. We were overscheduled even then... and so... the same number of racers just competed in events run by two OA's... You could not find sailors who could not go racing some where else.

If you want to bitch about it... well consider it is the grumpy old man disease that is bubbling up.... Let it go.

The issue as it every was... Over scheduled and Finding or developing new racers. Hell in my area, Clubs running Hobie events have asked if A class would be interested in racing and the answer was... I will check but we are already scheduled to the max.... It's a DEAD ISSUE!

Last edited by Mark Schneider; 04/01/14 06:40 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
Re: I don't get it. [Re: Mark Schneider] #271010
04/01/14 07:25 PM
04/01/14 07:25 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Schneider

The issue as it every was... Over scheduled and Finding or developing new racers. Hell in my area, Clubs running Hobie events have asked if A class would be interested in racing and the answer was... I will check but we are already scheduled to the max.... It's a DEAD ISSUE!


Yeuppp that too.





Last edited by Ventucky Red; 04/01/14 07:25 PM.
Re: I don't get it. [Re: Ventucky Red] #271022
04/02/14 08:27 AM
04/02/14 08:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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I am actually kind of excited about that earlier post that alluded to people wanting to put together a new regatta.

Given the time/effort involved in organizing pretty much anything, I wonder what their thought process is in wanting another regatta.

Do they feel they are underserved in their particular geography?

Is their fleet/club not invited to some other regattas nearby?

Do they think it's a money-maker for a particular group?

Is there a new location that would make an excellent venue they wish to exploit?

Do they feel there is something "wrong" with the other regatta offerings that a new event would "fix"?



Jay

Re: I don't get it. [Re: ] #271026
04/02/14 08:43 AM
04/02/14 08:43 AM
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brucat Offline
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More outside-the-box thinking here, brace yourself and try to digest before shooting it down...

Would it be helpful to have a national umbrella organization (cough, cough... USSA MRC) serve as the "5 families"?

What I see is a national situation extremely similar to what we had/have in the northeast. There was a time when all the classes worked well together (in terms of scheduling and hosting regattas), under the umbrella of HCA Division 12 and the Hobie fleet structure.

Yes, that caused issues (non-Hobie sailors using the Hobie name, etc.), and yes, I was a staunch supporter of the edict about 5 years before it happened. However, by the time of the edict, it was too late to help us, and had the opposite effect: it effectively killed all organized racing for Hobie sailors in New England.

I am NOT trying to stir this up. People acted with nothing but the best intentions, and there are large parts of the country where this is perfectly fine. And, I totally agree that HCC and HCA (and any other class and manufacturer) have every right to spend their money and energy as they deem appropriate.

But, I think we can (and should) have an umbrella organization that can allow us to work together more formally, and complementing the efforts of the classes without crossing boundaries of how the classes do their jobs.

This would also give a new purpose for Area reps, now that the qualifiers are gone. They would serve as the regional leaders to set up meetings, coordinate communications, etc. Maybe we could even come up with US Sailing area multihull championships/festivals (a title and concept to enhance existing regattas, not necessarily new events).

EDIT: Yes, this could be done as NAMSA. But, there are a lot of good reasons to do this under US Sailing. We have a recognized body, with an approved regulation, with the purpose of providing a "forum" for sailors and manufacturers to work together. It's already there, waiting for us to transform how we organize ourselves...

It's April 2 (this is not a prank)...

Mike

Last edited by brucat; 04/02/14 08:52 AM.
Re: I don't get it. [Re: waterbug_wpb] #271028
04/02/14 09:07 AM
04/02/14 09:07 AM
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Posts: 5,525
pgp Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I am actually kind of excited about that earlier post that alluded to people wanting to put together a new regatta.

Given the time/effort involved in organizing pretty much anything, I wonder what their thought process is in wanting another regatta.

Do they feel they are underserved in their particular geography?

Is their fleet/club not invited to some other regattas nearby?

Do they think it's a money-maker for a particular group?

Is there a new location that would make an excellent venue they wish to exploit?

Do they feel there is something "wrong" with the other regatta offerings that a new event would "fix"?



Skirting your question a little, this is the most successful sailing club I'm aware of, http://www.cmcs-sail.org/

They are a year round social organization. They never miss acknowledging a birth, death, graduation, marriage, new boat purchase, old boat sale, what have you.

Because they are in one local their organization is centered on a monthly meeting, lots of food and easy fun. They involve everyone in something (I was historian for a short time).

You could do the same thing involving this site or other social media and keep people involved year round, and I'm afraid that's what it will take.

I'd make everyone welcome, kayakers, bird watchers, anyone who likes being around boats and water.

Just quarantine politics to one forum (I like the name Cauldron).

Last edited by pgp; 04/02/14 09:08 AM.

Pete Pollard
Blade 702

'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.

Re: I don't get it. [Re: pgp] #271033
04/02/14 10:52 AM
04/02/14 10:52 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 186
wildtsail7 Offline
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Originally Posted by pgp
What is the average age of sailors now versus ten years ago?

Time passes.


Average age of the NE F18 fleet is around 30... I'd venture to guess it's around 40 for the US F18 class?

I think that's an exception compared to the A Cat, Hobie 16, etc.?

Why does the Madcatter thrive..with crew posts like this [Re: ] #271035
04/02/14 11:56 AM
04/02/14 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 454
Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
T
Tom Korz Offline
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Syracuse, NY Hobie Fleet 204
Two cute sailor girls looking for a ride in Madcatter

Hi,

I am so excited that the upcoming best party of the year - Madcatter - is just around the corner!!!

Unfortunately my skipper John Bauldry is sailing with another crew this year.

My girlfriend xxxx xxxx - also a good sailor from Toronto - and I would very much like to participate in the event.

If there are any F18 sailors needing crews, we would be happy to jump in! We are about 5'6 tall, and weigh 140 (Beata) and 120 (Andria).

Your kind response would be greatly appreciated and I look forward to seeing all of you wonderful people in Syracuse this year!

Regards,


PS: If you need crew, full details on our Fleet Forum @ www.Fleet204.com

Re: I don't get it. [Re: bacho] #271038
04/02/14 12:26 PM
04/02/14 12:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
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Isotope235 Offline
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Originally Posted by bacho
I don't think anyone here would disagree that OD the events are better.

I would!

If I drive 5 hours to attend a 40 boat regatta, I would much rather it is split into two 20-boat handicap fleets than into eight 5-boat one-design classes. Racing against 19 similar boats is much more fun (and a better test of skill) than racing against just 4 that are the same. That is especially true if 15 of the 19 handicap boats are sailed by people I only meet once or twice a year, and the 4 one-design boats are from my local fleet that puts 8-12 boats on the line twice a month.

I liked Spring Fever best when it was scored by the portsmouth yardstick and had huge starts. I've enjoyed Catfest, Tommy Whitesides, and the Outback Cup (et. al.) specifically because I was able to race with a different group of sailors. I can't get that at an HCA sanctioned regatta because they won't let me compete with the H-16s, H-17s, or H-18s.

The only regattas I attend that I feel need to be one-design are the class championships (such as the Isotope Nationals).

Regards,
Eric

Re: I don't get it. [Re: Ventucky Red] #271040
04/02/14 12:39 PM
04/02/14 12:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Dave, don't take this wrong, but all I read in your post is Me, Me, Me, and Me...... You being pretty myopic and I can understand this being what you have probably spent to have some serious skin in the game... Me...my goal is a little more altruistic, I am looking at this as a way to get more people introduced to cat sailing and out on the water...

So your saying the there could not be two classes, two starts at a regatta and segregate the F-18 class and the "other class" or run them at the same time and do separate scoring...



Dude, you don't know me you don't know what I've done and the time I've donated so save me the lecture. When you donate the same amount of personal time to grow the sport and spend the scratch to go to regattas outside your zip code then you can look down on me and preach all you like, until then save it.

Oh and let me know when you park your boat for a year to pull strings for a new skipper knowing you're going to be replaced when she has outgrown you.

And your last point about seperate starts WE DO THAT ALREADY!!! We just don't do it all the time... why you ask, because it's it's freaking better to have your own start!

I tell you what you travel to 4 regatta's 2 hours or more out of your zip code and I'll attend 4 Mark S. like regattas... I'm already way ahead on this so chop chop.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: I don't get it. [Re: David Ingram] #271043
04/02/14 12:57 PM
04/02/14 12:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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somebody awoke up Grumpy McGrumpypants! Now you've done it!


Jake Kohl
Re: I don't get it. [Re: Jake] #271045
04/02/14 01:26 PM
04/02/14 01:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

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Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
A lot of folks don't seem to take advantage of the discounted Display Ads in the magazine for non-commercial events -- $75 for a full page in the hard cover magazine.

As mentioned the schedule is publish online Free (Google Analytics info for March:
Visits: 24,216
Unique Visitors: 10,178
Pages Viewed: 100,071)

And then goes into the magazine (2000 mailing list)

Not many seem to take advantage of that.

Rick



Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: I don't get it. [Re: David Ingram] #271059
04/02/14 04:14 PM
04/02/14 04:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,222
Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Team_Cat_Fever Offline
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Roanoke Island ,N.C.
Originally Posted by David Ingram

I tell you what you travel to 4 regatta's 2 hours or more out of your zip code ...


Man, 2 whole hours, you are quite the traveler. Does that include old man Pee breaks or do you just save up the Depends and throw them away after your long journey. smirk


"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"

The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea
Isak Dinesen
If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most.
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Re: I don't get it. [Re: David Ingram] #271062
04/02/14 05:51 PM
04/02/14 05:51 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Ventucky Red  Offline
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Posts: 1,403
Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red


Dave, don't take this wrong, but all I read in your post is Me, Me, Me, and Me...... You being pretty myopic and I can understand this being what you have probably spent to have some serious skin in the game... Me...my goal is a little more altruistic, I am looking at this as a way to get more people introduced to cat sailing and out on the water...

So your saying the there could not be two classes, two starts at a regatta and segregate the F-18 class and the "other class" or run them at the same time and do separate scoring...



Dude, you don't know me you don't know what I've done and the time I've donated so save me the lecture. When you donate the same amount of personal time to grow the sport and spend the scratch to go to regattas outside your zip code then you can look down on me and preach all you like, until then save it.

Oh and let me know when you park your boat for a year to pull strings for a new skipper knowing you're going to be replaced when she has outgrown you.

And your last point about seperate starts WE DO THAT ALREADY!!! We just don't do it all the time... why you ask, because it's it's freaking better to have your own start!

I tell you what you travel to 4 regatta's 2 hours or more out of your zip code and I'll attend 4 Mark S. like regattas... I'm already way ahead on this so chop chop.


Likewise you don't know me...

I have been in this game since 1978 when I crewed for some guy on his Hobie 16 at Sandy Point Park in Maryland... while I was there sailing my Force 5. From that point on, I parked my Force 5 and never looked back. I still remember this August day like yesterday.

I too have countless hours volunteering at many an event just to deal with the complaints that the race course was not to my liking, running a shoddy mismanaged race, trophies weren’t big enough, the t-shirts were too skimpy (never got paid for those..), or because we served chicken in place of steak, and broke up a few fights between some drunken sailors just to catch a left hook for my efforts. I have even fielded the 4:00 AM phone call from an entrant asking for help because they are broken down on the freeway...

Also, I have managed to put over 200K miles on two different Volkswagen vans with in twelve years with a good chunk of these miles traveling to many a regatta up and down the west coast… Even attended a few on the east coast held by the Sandy Hook Catamaran Club, the St. Mary’s Regatta, and helping out at the Cape May Hobie regatta. Oh! Forgot…. did one in the Great Lakes just west of Grand Rapids… but I prefer to forget that one…

I could go on Dave proving that mine is bigger than yours….. But that is not the intent.

The point I was making is our sport is getting smaller and smaller every year… We, yes WE need to start fostering in new sailors. In reading your post what I saw was one of the mindsets that is killing it…”we don’t want them on our course.” If this was not your intent I apologize.

Oh! I don't need my own start... I'll go toe to toe with you anyday!!! cool

John Schwartz
Ventura, CA





Last edited by Ventucky Red; 04/02/14 06:04 PM.
Re: I don't get it. [Re: Ventucky Red] #271063
04/02/14 06:04 PM
04/02/14 06:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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OK...good. Now that you guys know each other and are ready for a delightful chat over tea and crumpets, can we get back to the topic?


Jake Kohl
Re: I don't get it. [Re: Isotope235] #271066
04/02/14 06:51 PM
04/02/14 06:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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bacho  Offline
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Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by Isotope42
Originally Posted by bacho
I don't think anyone here would disagree that OD the events are better.

I would!

If I drive 5 hours to attend a 40 boat regatta, I would much rather it is split into two 20-boat handicap fleets than into eight 5-boat one-design classes. Racing against 19 similar boats is much more fun (and a better test of skill) than racing against just 4 that are the same. That is especially true if 15 of the 19 handicap boats are sailed by people I only meet once or twice a year, and the 4 one-design boats are from my local fleet that puts 8-12 boats on the line twice a month.

I liked Spring Fever best when it was scored by the portsmouth yardstick and had huge starts. I've enjoyed Catfest, Tommy Whitesides, and the Outback Cup (et. al.) specifically because I was able to race with a different group of sailors. I can't get that at an HCA sanctioned regatta because they won't let me compete with the H-16s, H-17s, or H-18s.

The only regattas I attend that I feel need to be one-design are the class championships (such as the Isotope Nationals).

Regards,
Eric


Of course you would, those damn isotopes make everyone look silly on a light air lake day.

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