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Sail from FL to Bahamas? #27426
01/01/04 10:59 PM
01/01/04 10:59 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 139
Daytona Beach FL
TheoA Offline OP
member
TheoA  Offline OP
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Daytona Beach FL
Ok, maybe I'm crazy. I'm not an open water sailor, and have very little time "out there"

But I do have an idea. How about a sail to/from the bahamas on a beachcat? I know it would take hours, but isn't it only 60 miles away? I also understand that open water is vey different than coastal water. It can become very rough very quickly.

I wouldn't want to do this solo, or even with a single boat. Any ideas? Stories? Etc?


94 N5.5SL
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27427
01/01/04 11:53 PM
01/01/04 11:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 87
Bridge City, Texas
pirate_tx Offline
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Bridge City, Texas
I have thought about the same thing! doing some island hopping after I got there. But everyone I have talked 2
about it acts like I am nuts!

Doug Ramsey
TheMightyHobie18 #4383

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27428
01/02/04 12:59 AM
01/02/04 12:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 16
D
deseely Offline
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deseely  Offline
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Posts: 16
I took a jetski across from Riviera beach to the westend back in 97. Then went around to Freeport to find a hotel. I'm not sure if its still open but I stayed at Running Mon. It has several slips for hotel guests and its right on the water. I went over the 4th of July weekend. That seems to be the best time as far as weather and there is lots of boats crossing on that weekend. I had a GPS, a radio and an extra 13 gallons of gas strapped to the side so I was well prepared. The only rough part is just as you approach the island, the long gental swells get much steeper and closer together. I say get a few people together and go, but be prepared.

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: pirate_tx] #27429
01/02/04 10:02 AM
01/02/04 10:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I've thought about that too - I've sailed several 100 mile events but they were usually along shore lines. That certainly would be a big step to cross open ocean.


Jake Kohl
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27430
01/02/04 10:31 AM
01/02/04 10:31 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 87
Bridge City, Texas
pirate_tx Offline
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Bridge City, Texas
Well looks like we got 3 boats here, Let plan a crossing!
in 2004. Anybody game.


Doug Ramsey

Not a good plan! [Re: TheoA] #27431
01/02/04 11:19 AM
01/02/04 11:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
First of all, there is a reason they call the area the "Devil's Triangle." There are many boats and people lost in that area. And I don't think is some mysterious doings that cause it -- just people doing dumb things in an area that has some pretty treacherous stuff going on.

For over ten years I was a charter captain out of Miami and running trips to the Bahamas on a 67' ketch that slept 28 people -- it was more of a motor sailor with a huge diesel engine.
As big as that boat was and with all its tonnage, it was often tossed around like a cork in the Gulf Stream. Whenever there is an opposing wind to the Stream (current can run over 4 knots at times) the waves stand straight up. That gives 44-miles (the distance from Miami to Bimini)of square waves that you must navigate.
I don't think a normal beach cat would hold up in those conditions.

The direct course to Bimini from Miami is 115 degrees. While the true course is around 100 degrees, you need to allow about 15 degrees for the Stream, so you need to steer more to the right. That is in a boat that is sailing around 8 knots. If you have a boat that can make 15 knots, you could cut the 15 degrees in half.
Of course, back then I used dead reckoning -- gps was not around.
But, let's assume you must take a heading of 115 to 120 degrees to hit Bimini. That means you would want the wind to be coming from around 170 degrees.., or southerly. Sounds good, right?
Wrong! When the wind shifts to the south it means there is a front approaching.., and you certainly don't want to get caught in the middle of the Stream in a Frontal Passage.
If the wind is behind you.., or out of the West, you are right in the middle of a Front. Scary!
After a Frontal Passage, the wind may blow pretty strongly from North to Northeast.
Sounds good, Right?
Wrong!
When the wind is piping out of the NNE it is directly opposing the Gulf Stream and you will experience 20 foot seas that are straight up and down vertically. You literally drop off a wave into a deep trough. Many boats and people have perished in those conditions.

Also, when you get to the islands, navigational lights are not always working properly, if at all.

The Bimini area is the first of the islands making up the Bahamas. After that it is a long, long sail to the next islands. While there is no strong currents to contend with, there are also no navigational aids along the way. There is a slim pass through the reef that opens to deep water to get to the Berry Islands and Nassau. I remember the main light there had been hit by and intra-island commercial boat that knocked it down. It was out of commission for years after that.

At any rate, if you want to be in our magazine's obit column, go for it.
By the way, a good way to do this trip is to sign on as crew with any of the boats that annually race from Miami to Bimini each June. Lots of multihulls do the race. Many continue on to Abaco for a week or so of racing over there.
Much safer and more fun than a beach cat.
Rick



Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: pirate_tx] #27432
01/02/04 11:21 AM
01/02/04 11:21 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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BANNED
When I pick up my tornado, the first thing I wanted to do was to cross from Key West to the Dry Tortugas and back.

this sounds just as fun.

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27433
01/02/04 11:48 AM
01/02/04 11:48 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 806
Toronto, Ontario
pitchpoledave Offline
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Toronto, Ontario
What about a sail over to Cuba? That sounds like fun.

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: pitchpoledave] #27434
01/02/04 12:34 PM
01/02/04 12:34 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 139
Daytona Beach FL
TheoA Offline OP
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TheoA  Offline OP
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Posts: 139
Daytona Beach FL
Well, I certinly understand some of the dangers associated with it. I also have a lot of questions as well. Someone has had to of done this on a beachcat before....

Need to get aquanted with things like rescue range, epirbs, etc I suppose. I haven't made up my mind about doing it, but I'm exploring the option.


94 N5.5SL
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27435
01/02/04 01:52 PM
01/02/04 01:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
It is doable, if you pick your weather. But that's a problem when you are trying to organize a multi-boat crossing. It is hard to just set a date and say you're going to go for it on that date. You may end up having to postpone for days or even weeks. Your group of participants would have to be people who are very flexible with their disposable time and who are all able to wait for the right window of opportunity -- sort of like the crew of Playstation gets put on standby to wait for the most favorable winds to set a new record, and then they have to be ready to go at a moment's notice.

The prevailing winds (the tradewinds) are east/southeast at 10-15. The wind speed is good; the wind direction is not, when you are trying to go east. You would have to tack all the way across the Gulf Stream, and also compensate for the current, which is taking you north. It is about 45 miles from Miami to Bimini, but it is a heck of a lot farther if you have to tack all the way.

Rick already explained the potential problems when the wind is out of the south or west. And, of course, it is totally impossible when the wind is out of any of the northern quadrants.

In addition to worrying about the wind switching around to the north, you also have to worry about being becalmed out in the middle of the Gulf Stream. This has happened several times to the big multihulls doing their annual race across the Stream. So the ideal thing is to have a little outboard motor mounted on your boat so you can at least try to avoid being run over by a freighter.

The big charter boats (like Rick used to operate) all do the Gulf Stream crossing to the Bahamas at night, leaving the mainland about midnight. This is so that they can arrive at the Bahamas in the morning, in daylight, so they can see to get through the few and precarious, rocky openings.

I would think beach cats would want to do a daytime crossing; and, therefore, in most conditions they probably will not make it across until dark. So you could be stuck on the outside all night waiting until daybreak in order to get "in." It's not like you can drop an anchor there on the outside, because the water is very deep right up to the edge of the Bahama Bank. No beaches, just very nasty rocks. So you are just going to have to keep sailing around all night until daylight -- or take a chance on shooting through one of the openings, which might be tough if the wind is on the nose.

And then, of course, you have to immediately go to Customs and check in before you can go any deeper into the Bahamas. There is a Customs station at Bimini and another at Cat Cay. I'm sure there must be one on Grand Bahama Island, too. I'm also sure they are not open at night, so you would have to wait until they open before you can check in and then continue your trip.

Best possible scenario would be to get a fast reach over with a south wind preceding a slow-moving cold front. Stay in the Bahamas until the front has passed, and then get a downwind ride back to the mainland on the easterly tradewinds.



Last edited by Mary; 01/02/04 01:55 PM.
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27436
01/02/04 02:16 PM
01/02/04 02:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Keith Offline
veteran
Keith  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459
Annapolis,MD
Just got back from Bimini for a Thanksgiving trip. The friend we stayed with had the story that a few years (maybe more than just a few) a pair showed up on a Hobie-18 after crossing from Miami. They entered the cut between North and South Bimini as the tide was rushing out and spent a long time tacking against the current to get in. After they were ashore the weather turned and my friend ended up with extended stay guests. Ultimately they flew home and retrieved the boat later I think.

They might have been more lucky than skilled at the time...

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27437
01/02/04 05:00 PM
01/02/04 05:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 117
PSAILOR Offline
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Posts: 117

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: PSAILOR] #27438
01/02/04 07:18 PM
01/02/04 07:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
In 2001 four or five Worrell 1000 teams, on Inter 20's, decided to sail over to Bimini sometime during the month prior to the Worrell. They had decent wind when they started, but when they got to the middle of the Stream -- about 20-25 miles from the mainland -- the wind totally died, so they turned around and came back.

Also, Theo, in terms of communications and safety, Rick tells me that when you are in the middle of the Stream, you are out of cell phone range and out of VHF range for a handheld (even for most regular VHF radios with antennas). He said nobody in the Bahamas responds to radio calls. If you are in trouble, you could probably hail a passing freighter, and they could contact the Coast Guard. And then, what is really scary is that the Coast Guard may ask the freighter to come to your aid. Those ships are not exactly known for their maneuverability. Sadly, we know this from personal experience.

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27439
01/02/04 10:34 PM
01/02/04 10:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 87
Bridge City, Texas
pirate_tx Offline
journeyman
pirate_tx  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 87
Bridge City, Texas
Mary, sounds like you have the plan. I was thinking we would have to wait the weather out. Get the right conditions. Has anybody ever done this on a beach cat?


Doug & Stacy

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: pirate_tx] #27440
01/03/04 12:49 AM
01/03/04 12:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
old hand
cyberspeed  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
I've been wanting to do the trip. I have been talking to a potential sponsor for a race from Miami to West End to West Palm (Singer Island). I am in the process of having my hulls gone through and reinforced. It would be good to do a recon trip. I have 14 years heavy ocean sailing off the coast of West Palm with lots of experience in the Gulf Stream (something to be approached with extreme respect). I just have to find a hole in my schedule.

Craig
TeamCyberspeed.com


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: cyberspeed] #27441
01/04/04 02:19 AM
01/04/04 02:19 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 139
Daytona Beach FL
TheoA Offline OP
member
TheoA  Offline OP
member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 139
Daytona Beach FL
I'm in Daytona Beach, but I can meet somewhere. Lots of Prep to do for me to feel comfortable


94 N5.5SL
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27442
01/04/04 03:28 PM
01/04/04 03:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
cyberspeed Offline
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cyberspeed  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,066
Wellington, FL-Singer Island, ...
I actually happen to be in Daytona for testing for the 24 Hours of Daytona. I will be here till tomorrow if you want to meet out for drinks tonight. Let me know.

craig@teamcyberspeed.com


craig van eaton
Supercat 20
TEAM CYBERSPEED
www.TeamCyberspeed.com
Endurance Series
www.SailSeries.com
Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: TheoA] #27443
01/06/04 11:07 AM
01/06/04 11:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Steve_Kwiksilver Offline
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Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa
Latest crossing seems to have been on an Inter 20, by Katie Pettibone & skipper who`se name I can`t remember - A small write-up was in Sailing World mag, November 2003 issue. Apparently they experienced conditions which Rick describes, no wind in the Stream, then short steep waves & strong winds. In spite of this they crossed in 3 hours, the return trip took much longer, total trip time was 15 hours, not too sure if they did it all in one go or on separate days. Katie Pettibone wrote the article, and recommends waiting for a Southerly wind I think, also says it`s within reach of a lot of cat sailors in the area. Maybe she has no idea of some of the dangers which Rick mentions !
That`s all I remember, perhaps if you can find that issue it might help, although it was a short write-up.

Cheers
Steve

Re: Sail from FL to Bahamas? [Re: Steve_Kwiksilver] #27444
01/06/04 11:49 PM
01/06/04 11:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
SteveT Offline
enthusiast
SteveT  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 248
Colorado
Quote
Latest crossing seems to have been on an Inter 20, by Katie Pettibone & skipper who`se name I can`t remember - A small write-up was in Sailing World mag, November 2003 issue...


The skipper was Christophe Ribot. The story on page 14 says that on the retrun trip, the wind died in the Stream before piping up again to 30 knots. They ended up finishing 26 miles north of their intended destination at 1 a.m.


H-20 #896
Re: Not a good plan! [Re: RickWhite] #27445
01/07/04 03:08 PM
01/07/04 03:08 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
B
brobru Offline
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brobru  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 552
Hello All,

Well, what appears to be an interesting trek, as Rick warns, is full of potential harm to small vessels ( such as beach cats),...take his post as serious information.

We cross over from St. Croix to St. Thomas here in the Caribbean for the race seasons. It is around 35 miles of open ocean.

Sometimes, it has been very nice,..and uneventful,.....other times,..**##%%@@!!!.

Surprizingly enough, there are no 'nice ocean rollers', for the waves bounce off the islands and do there own thing( even at 35 miles between them)

Once you are out of sight of land,..it is tremendously ALONE and the reality hits you,.....if something went wrong,..even minor,...you are stuck!

Luckily, we were always prepared with sound rigs and nothing happens.

The trip takes 3 hours 40-ish minute on a good day,....and 5 hours on a light day.

With proper support by attending motor vessels, we have planned a distance race, as a feeder to regattas,..but it never jelled,.....last year I shipped the I-17 over and eventually sailed it back a month or so later with a friends I-20............by the way, the I-20 is an excellant open water boat,....the I-17 is not( it just pitches too much in big seas)......

....it could be fun if you do it right....,..I think a ARC 27 with a 22 foot beam and outboard may be your answer here....


regards,
Bruce
St. Croix

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