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Diamond Wire Settings #274632
08/12/14 04:30 PM
08/12/14 04:30 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline OP
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I replace my diamond wires and stupid me forgot to take a reading before taking them off... And I liked the setting....

I have found a few settings on line of 176 KGS/ 390 LBS Setting #28 on the Loos Gaudge, but that seems a light.

Any other benchmarks to consider?

Boat = 2003 NACRA F-18
Crew = on average 440 lbs.... I know... to big old guys
Wind = on average 10 to 15 kts steady
Water = general ocean sailing... moderate chop

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Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Ventucky Red] #274633
08/12/14 04:39 PM
08/12/14 04:39 PM
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Tony_F18] #274637
08/12/14 04:52 PM
08/12/14 04:52 PM
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Tony,

Thanks.... I have looked at that and have been told that they are two different mast profiles which sort of negates the recommendation... Am I getting wrong info?

Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Ventucky Red] #274638
08/12/14 05:10 PM
08/12/14 05:10 PM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Tony,

Thanks.... I have looked at that and have been told that they are two different mast profiles which sort of negates the recommendation... Am I getting wrong info?


They are very different masts. While I wouldn't be surprised if the average settings work out very similarly (since the load capacity of the wire systems are likely very similar), I would consult the sailmaker for the recommended diamond wire settings. I had that version of F18 but really can't remember anything about how we used to setup the diamond wires.


Jake Kohl
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Ventucky Red] #274645
08/12/14 07:07 PM
08/12/14 07:07 PM
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Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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It's a bit complicated with that boat, the bottom of the diamond wires was attached in different positions, some were at the front some at the side at various distances from the leading edge. If you haven't changed your spreader rake, start at 40 and go as high as 45 on the Loos guage. You have to have prebend with that mast so if 40 doesn't look like much you could add a bit more, mostly the difference will be your sailing weight. For detailed help you could email Rosco or Warren at "Brisbane Catamaran Centre" in Australia with measurements of your setup including the position of your spreaders, how long they are, what the spreader rake is and your exact attachment point at the bottom.


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
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Arrow 1576
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: JeffS] #274648
08/12/14 09:14 PM
08/12/14 09:14 PM
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Yes it is a little tricky...

Found some info from Goose Marine on tuning the 2003-2005 F-18... https://store-cpjif3z.mybigcommerce.com/content/Tuning-guide-F18-2003-Model.pdf


Then there is the "which Loos Gauge" factor... For instance I am using the PT-1 standard and I believe many folks are referring to the Model A tool metric.... not that 3 mm and 1/8" are any different... but the Loos #'s are

So starting at 40 on the model A would be 250 KGS that translates to 550 lbs which is just about 30% of break strength... Looks like 177 KGS/390 LBS should be a good starting point....

I will drop Rosco and Warren a note and get their advice too.... Appreciate your help..





Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Ventucky Red] #274651
08/13/14 01:49 AM
08/13/14 01:49 AM

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Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
... not that 3 mm and 1/8" are any different

There is a 6% difference in diameter and an 11% difference in area (the important number).

Last edited by Scarecrow; 08/13/14 02:52 AM.
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Ventucky Red] #274653
08/13/14 07:52 AM
08/13/14 07:52 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Yes it is a little tricky...

Found some info from Goose Marine on tuning the 2003-2005 F-18... https://store-cpjif3z.mybigcommerce.com/content/Tuning-guide-F18-2003-Model.pdf


Then there is the "which Loos Gauge" factor... For instance I am using the PT-1 standard and I believe many folks are referring to the Model A tool metric.... not that 3 mm and 1/8" are any different... but the Loos #'s are

So starting at 40 on the model A would be 250 KGS that translates to 550 lbs which is just about 30% of break strength... Looks like 177 KGS/390 LBS should be a good starting point....

I will drop Rosco and Warren a note and get their advice too.... Appreciate your help..






The engineer in my absolutely hates it when people use the numbers off a particular loos gauge as the reading. There is a conversion scale on the side of that thing for a reason. lbs or kgs tension is THE measurement to use to make notes or communicate that reading. It is the only measurement that is scientific and standard.


Jake Kohl
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Jake] #274654
08/13/14 08:25 AM
08/13/14 08:25 AM
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Hillsborough, NC USA
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Originally Posted by Jake
The engineer in my absolutely hates it when people use the numbers off a particular loos gauge as the reading. There is a conversion scale on the side of that thing for a reason. lbs or kgs tension is THE measurement to use to make notes or communicate that reading. It is the only measurement that is scientific and standard.

Does that mean the engineer in you doesn't absolutely hate it when people use units of weight (lb) and mass(kg) when they should use units of force (lbf and N) to measure tension? After, all, force units are the measurement that is "scientific and standard". grin

Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Isotope235] #274656
08/13/14 09:00 AM
08/13/14 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Isotope235
Originally Posted by Jake
The engineer in my absolutely hates it when people use the numbers off a particular loos gauge as the reading. There is a conversion scale on the side of that thing for a reason. lbs or kgs tension is THE measurement to use to make notes or communicate that reading. It is the only measurement that is scientific and standard.

Does that mean the engineer in you doesn't absolutely hate it when people use units of weight (lb) and mass(kg) when they should use units of force (lbf and N) to measure tension? After, all, force units are the measurement that is "scientific and standard". grin


I agree, just give me the KGS or LBS setting.... as I found out yesterday there are a few different Loos gauges in the market and each of them have a different scale.... But as person put to me recently "it needs to be dumbed down because people don't want to think anymore."

Isotope.... I am not an engineer, but close.... I love to work on cars and such... hells bells, I'll rip out my VW engine and rebuild it for fun even though it just got broken in from the last rebuild... In my years I have always thought torque and tension (which is what I believe I am measuring with the diamond wires) are two different things.... Is this not the case

As a side note, in college when taking German, we had to translate a book chapter from English to German.... I decided to do the chapter from "How to Keep Your VW Alive.... specifically the engine installation procedure.... had to convert all the Pounds to Newtons setting using paper and pencil.... Pocket calculators we're just coming into the market and we're selling for $100 plus.... Yes..... I am that old!!!!!


Last edited by Ventucky Red; 08/13/14 09:04 AM.
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Isotope235] #274658
08/13/14 10:06 AM
08/13/14 10:06 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by Isotope235
Originally Posted by Jake
The engineer in my absolutely hates it when people use the numbers off a particular loos gauge as the reading. There is a conversion scale on the side of that thing for a reason. lbs or kgs tension is THE measurement to use to make notes or communicate that reading. It is the only measurement that is scientific and standard.

Does that mean the engineer in you doesn't absolutely hate it when people use units of weight (lb) and mass(kg) when they should use units of force (lbf and N) to measure tension? After, all, force units are the measurement that is "scientific and standard". grin


{facepalm}, yes, that. I had a coworker throwing up next to me twice this morning before I was able to demand that she go home (I was on two different conference calls with clients at the time and they were listening to it too)....that threw me off my game a little this morning ;-)....although, in my defense, the gauges do list their scales in "lbs tension" or "kg tension"...which I think is still technically correct since it's measured in a static condition and we're not concerned about the effects gravity in this case? I would have to look that up.


Jake Kohl
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Jake] #274661
08/13/14 11:02 AM
08/13/14 11:02 AM
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Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by Jake

The engineer in my absolutely hates it when people use the numbers off a particular loos gauge as the reading.


If you'd hook us all up with the inline digital force transducer you've likely engineered (from the AC boats), we wouldn't have to use the stone-age Loos gauges!

And I am absolutely sure that flux capacitor you built for that Everglades Challenge boat to your F18 is not class legal... Not to mention your cloaking device


Jay

Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: waterbug_wpb] #274667
08/13/14 12:10 PM
08/13/14 12:10 PM
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Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Ok you guys it really is time for you to out of your mom's basement.


David Ingram
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Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: waterbug_wpb] #274669
08/13/14 12:14 PM
08/13/14 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Not to mention your cloaking device


Hmmm this is giving me some ideas!

Originally Posted by Scarecrow
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
... not that 3 mm and 1/8" are any different

There is a 6% difference in diameter and an 11% difference in area (the important number).


As we say here in the US..."good enough for government work."

Last edited by Ventucky Red; 08/13/14 12:23 PM.
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: David Ingram] #274674
08/13/14 01:25 PM
08/13/14 01:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
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Naples, FL
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Ok you guys it really is time for you to out of your mom's basement.


I'm grounded till Buzzelli.... (but I did register bit*hes!)


Jay

Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Ventucky Red] #274675
08/13/14 01:26 PM
08/13/14 01:26 PM
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Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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[/quote]

As we say here in the US..."good enough for government work." [/quote]

LOL,

That sounds like like a Jersey comment.

I'm sure your response will be,

"TOUCHE"


Have Fun
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: waterbug_wpb] #274678
08/13/14 01:56 PM
08/13/14 01:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Jake

The engineer in my absolutely hates it when people use the numbers off a particular loos gauge as the reading.


If you'd hook us all up with the inline digital force transducer you've likely engineered (from the AC boats), we wouldn't have to use the stone-age Loos gauges!

And I am absolutely sure that flux capacitor you built for that Everglades Challenge boat to your F18 is not class legal... Not to mention your cloaking device


No need to engineer it, Harken already makes one using a high resolution strain gauge (much more accurate that an uncalibratable simple spring loos gauge).

[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: catman] #274686
08/13/14 04:25 PM
08/13/14 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by catman
Quote


As we say here in the US..."good enough for government work."


LOL,

That sounds like like a Jersey comment.

I'm sure your response will be,

"TOUCHE"


Actually leaned that in California.... along with close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades...

Re: Diamond Wire Settings [Re: Jake] #274689
08/13/14 06:12 PM
08/13/14 06:12 PM
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Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz.
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Originally Posted by Jake

The engineer in my absolutely hates it when people use the numbers off a particular loos gauge as the reading.


If you'd hook us all up with the inline digital force transducer you've likely engineered (from the AC boats), we wouldn't have to use the stone-age Loos gauges!

And I am absolutely sure that flux capacitor you built for that Everglades Challenge boat to your F18 is not class legal... Not to mention your cloaking device


No need to engineer it, Harken already makes one using a high resolution strain gauge (much more accurate that an uncalibratable simple spring loos gauge).

[Linked Image]


you mean Harken USED to make one, discontinued...


C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
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