Announcements
New Discussions
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 5
Hop To
Page 6 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: brucat] #275389
09/15/14 03:41 PM
09/15/14 03:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by brucat
Thanks. Case 75 helps a lot. I think we all agree that P had plenty of water to turn upwind sooner. I am just trying to determine when she HAD to.

FWIW, I've been trying not to let my gut feelings dictate, which are screaming to chuck P at all costs...

Mike


I know...I've been resisting the urge to post something about how that entire port approach at the pin was not smart. I couldn't find the exact rule number to cite for that. grin

And, hey, Ding...yeah. I'm saving up my insults for F18 NAs!



Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: Jake] #275390
09/15/14 03:54 PM
09/15/14 03:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by Jake
I'm saving up my insults for F18 NAs!



wow... that's going to sound like an ADHD with turettes


Jay

Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: brucat] #275391
09/15/14 04:44 PM
09/15/14 04:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline OP
old hand
Isotope235  Offline OP
old hand
I

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Originally Posted by brucat
I think we all agree that P had plenty of water to turn upwind sooner. I am just trying to determine when she HAD to.

Promptly. See the definition of room. When in doubt about exactly what constitutes "promptly", substitute the phrase "without delay".

Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: Isotope235] #275392
09/15/14 05:17 PM
09/15/14 05:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Let's talk about something else... Barging! Saw some interesting stuff behind the signal boat at Roton Point this weekend. At one point, I actually heard a windward boat tell a leeward boat (who should have known better), "You have to give me room!" as he was reaching in from several lengths away...

I know that L has to close the door before W gets to the signal boat (you can't luff someone into the signal boat and survive the hearing), but this was pretty blatant.

Mike

Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: brucat] #275398
09/16/14 07:33 AM
09/16/14 07:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
old hand
Chris9  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Or, you could check my video to make sure I described the Port/ Port/ Windward mark situation correctly? That would continue to be helpful...:)


Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: brucat] #275399
09/16/14 08:26 AM
09/16/14 08:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by brucat
Let's talk about something else... Barging!
Mike


yes, interesting topic. Let me get my head on straight here with a few definitions:

- Am I correct in reading the RRS that "a boat has no proper course before her starting signal"?

- "starting signal" being later defined as the start (removal of class flag)? the signal flags (class, prep, etc) all refer to "Minutes before starting signal"

- Barging, in this discussion, would mean someone sailing into a position where there is not enough room for them? And they're hoping that room will open up for them either by happenstance or freaking out the other boats?


If those parameters are agreed, I can't see where this "barging" behavior wouldn't involve huge potential for contact/fouling by the barging party.

Experts, please weigh in...


Jay

Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: Isotope235] #275400
09/16/14 09:14 AM
09/16/14 09:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
The first two points are correct. Barging most often happens when a boat (W) sees what looks like a nice space to leeward of the signal boat, and to windward of the nearest racing boat (L). That space usually goes away quickly as the clock winds down. A good crew on L will not let W in there, but the only legal way to keep W out is to luff with enough time such that W can't get overlapped with the stern of the signal boat. If that happens, L has allowed W space to which W was not entitled, but at that point has no recourse (especially not luffing W into the signal boat).

At least, that's how I understand it. There are rules and cases if anyone wants to do a little digging...

Mike

Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: brucat] #275402
09/16/14 09:23 AM
09/16/14 09:23 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
I
Isotope235 Offline OP
old hand
Isotope235  Offline OP
old hand
I

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807
Hillsborough, NC USA
Originally Posted by brucat
Let's talk about something else... Barging!

I think barging is a significant enough topic to deserve its own thread, so I created Racing Rules: "Barging". Let's discuss it there rather than further hijacking this thread.

Regards,
Eric

Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: Chris9] #275416
09/16/14 01:28 PM
09/16/14 01:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Originally Posted by Chris9
Thanks all for contributing to this learning. I've got another one for ya, probably much simpler, but I'll save that for another time. I've been able to cut down the video to about when windward enters the zone. Admittedly you cant see leeward or the contact directly. You can see/ feel and possible here it. What I'm interested in now is, did I described the situation correctly? When I desribed the situation, I tried to take a facts found approach and was able to get both boats to agree on the facts... mostly. Leeward thought they were overlapped. Incidentally, most people think they are overlapped I'm finding.

Video here: http://youtu.be/5btrp8opIuQ


Is this video related to the incident described on page 1 of this thread? If so, wish we had this sooner. The green boat was clearly fouled if contact was made. From what I can tell, green didn't alter course and rounded very close to the mark.

Mike

Re: Racing Rules: "Right of Way" [Re: brucat] #275417
09/16/14 01:50 PM
09/16/14 01:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Chris9 Offline
old hand
Chris9  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887
Crofton, MD
Yes page one, related to the situation I described. Green (Windward/clear ahead at the zone/ inside at the mark) did turn up, not to avoid leeward, but to round the mark as quickly as possible...

So I take it my description of the situation matches the video? I think you had a thread about how video footage is often different than how boats involved present their case.

The rest of your discussion was helpful as well. It caused me to recall that in most cases another boat force my to tack.

Last edited by Chris9; 09/16/14 01:51 PM.

Chris Allen
Nacra 20 Gertie
www.wrcra.org
Page 6 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  Damon Linkous 

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 473 guests, and 82 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Darryl, zorro, CraigJ, PaulEddo2, AUS180
8150 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,404
Posts267,055
Members8,150
Most Online2,167
Dec 19th, 2022
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1