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Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) #277845
03/07/15 12:26 AM
03/07/15 12:26 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 493
Minnesota
Jeff Peterson Offline OP
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Jeff Peterson  Offline OP
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Minnesota
From what I've seen that saltwater can do to aluminum on cats and outboard motors, what do you think will happen to the new F150 Ford Pick-up Trucks that have aluminum body panels? Will winter road salt and ocean seaspray eat these trucks alive? What could Ford have done to them to protect them over time? Is there any "new" protection technology that's transferable to cat tramp frames, pylons, and spars?



Jeff Peterson
H-16 Sail #23721
Big Marine Lake, MN
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277847
03/07/15 12:46 AM
03/07/15 12:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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When I lived in NH, where they dump salt onto the roads all winter long to melt the ice and snow, most of the auto dealers offered an 'Under spray' package, where they would spray the black goo under your car/truck on all the exposed metal surfaces, to keep them from rusting out with all the salt. I'm guessing if you buy an aluminum F150, you had better pay the extra $600 and get it sprayed!


Blade F16
#777
Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277850
03/07/15 07:02 AM
03/07/15 07:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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The aluminum will handle it better than the steel. Range Rover has been building aluminum bodied vehicles for a long time.


I'm boatless.
Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277852
03/07/15 02:27 PM
03/07/15 02:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 21
Quebec, Canada
A
A. Bourgault Offline
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Quebec, Canada
The first Audi A8 with aluminum body appeared around 1998.

Haven't heard of any particular problems related to the body and rust even here in Canada where a lot of salt was used om the road.

Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277859
03/08/15 04:17 AM
03/08/15 04:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 858
Victoria Australia
Pirate Offline
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Pirate  Offline
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Victoria Australia
Alloy bodied vehicles don't use a pure alloy a such, its a mixture alloy of aluminium and magnesium

Land Rover's (& I assume other makers) alloy bodies are made from Birmabright, Birmabright is merely a trade name of the old Birmetals Co. (located in Birmingham) for a British standard specification of sheet, ... (it is actually NS4 std).
All the major aluminium rolling mills - Alcan, Pechiney, British Aluminium, High Duty Alloys, Alcoa etc. sold the same sheet either under their trade-name or under the relevant British specification.

for more try this link (Wikipedia)


nb: I'm an Australian, we're a lazy mob when it comes to speech, therefore Alloy = Aluminum
(alloy is quicker to type and easier to spell, same shyte/different name) wink


Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips

Kingy
started with Impara Cadet #3 / Mosquito #245
& now Mosquitos #1182 & #1740

Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277867
03/08/15 11:07 AM
03/08/15 11:07 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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Quote
Ford is fighting this process by electrocoating the aluminum panels to electrically and physically isolate the metals, and by using new coatings on all body bolts. To test the long-term durability of these kinds of joints, engineers normally bathe body panels in a saltwater spray during a hot/cold environmental cycle—this encourages the formation of iron oxide. But with aluminum that was just too slow. So they switched to a corrosive acid bath and found that tweaking the metallic coating on the bolts protected the metal admirably.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/car...-tested-its-new-aluminum-f-150-16682803/


There has been a lot of work done to electrically isolate and/or protect aluminum body and frame components. The TT Roadster I had a few years ago had an aluminum chassis and mostly aluminum body. Audi designed the car with a steel rear section to achieve a 50/50 balance and pioneered a method to connect the steel and aluminum frame/body sections rigidly and protect from galvanic corrosion.

I'm sure Ford has done their homework.


Jake Kohl
Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277870
03/08/15 01:57 PM
03/08/15 01:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
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jollyrodgers  Offline
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maui
electrocoating- Is that anodizing?
It isn't easy to get a lasting coating any other way. The bigger sailboat masts are painted and need to be repainted after a decade or so.
Certainly the Ford Rangers built around the turn of the century and sold here have aluminum hoods which have pealing paint and corrosion on the leading edge. Corrosion appeared within a couple years on some.
There is an interesting documentary by National Geographic on youtube showing the painting of the aluminum Tesla cars. They also show the rolls of the raw material, the stamping machine, welding robots etc. Also i think the Delorian (back to the future car) was alloy.

If some one figures out how to electrically isolate a rivet from an anodized alloy extrusion that would be good.

Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277871
03/08/15 04:14 PM
03/08/15 04:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Delorean's were stainless steel. Rumor always was they were for shipping coke, and could be dumped and retrieved later I'd need be.

Either way, John Z Delorean screwed the Irish in a major way.


I'm boatless.
Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277877
03/09/15 07:42 AM
03/09/15 07:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
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Greenville SC
Plenty of aluminum aircraft operating in salty conditions, i havent seen too many fall out of the sky.


Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Jeff Peterson] #277880
03/09/15 09:22 AM
03/09/15 09:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 778
Houston
carlbohannon Offline
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Houston
To answer the original question, there is not much that Ford uses that can transfer to your H16. Ford and Jaguar use a different alloy than you do and much of their protection is engineered in to the design.

There have been some minor changes in paint on protection for galvanic corrosion and some new cups for rivets.

The DIY painted gun refinishing has made tuff paints available. google "painted gun finishes". Be careful some of these are brittle and will crack.

The only real change I have seen that can be applied to old boats is powder coating. I have 2 bikes about the same age, one Imron and the other powder coated. There is no comparison. The painted one needs a repaint and the powder coated one looks like it needs to be waxed. If you have something powder coated done make sure whoever does it has experience in marine finishes. I am told the difference between cheap lawn chair refinishes and marine/industrial finishers is the marine/industrial finishers know they have to do it right or the finish will peel.

Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: carlbohannon] #277881
03/09/15 10:00 AM
03/09/15 10:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I missed that in his original question!

The corrosion process is an electrical chemical reaction. You can protect the pylons and other aluminum bits by connecting something to it that is more reactive to make a sacrificial anode. This method is used on everything from boat motors, docks, and even the steel natural gas pipes in the ground. If you were to connect a magnesium anode to the aluminum part and make sure it remains in solid electrical contact, it will protect the aluminum. The question then follows; is it worth all of that expense and trouble?


Jake Kohl
Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: bacho] #277882
03/09/15 10:40 AM
03/09/15 10:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
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Timbo  Offline
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Sebring, Florida.
Originally Posted by bacho
Plenty of aluminum aircraft operating in salty conditions, i havent seen too many fall out of the sky.



Actually, they do have a LOT of corrosion problems with the fleets that spend a lot time in the 'salt water' environments. Also, all aircraft have to undergo inspections every 100 hours of flight time, and major inspections and overhauls every 1,000 hrs. and 10,000 hrs. etc. At some point depending on 'cycles' and total time, the entire airframe has to be uncovered, inspected, put back together. They refer to that as a 'heavy check' and it is quite expensive, Delta is parking all 16 of it's 25yr. old 747's due in part to the cost of the upcoming heavy checks. (Millions of dollars, each.)

Do you recall many years ago (25?) Aloha 737 came apart in flight? The top of the fuselage ripped right off, sucking one of the Flight Attendants, and a couple of passengers out? That metal (aluminum) failure was attributed to salt water corrosion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NWW77HnGTc

And do you remember a airline down in Miami/Nassau called Chalks Air? The flew their 'flying boats' back and forth to the Bahamas from Miami and Ft. Lauderdale, until they had a spar failure and the subsequent inspections grounded their fleet putting them out of business.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Ca9rmmmPU

There was a light plane accident right here in Sebring a couple years ago, a pilot flying an old two seater was circling over his passengers house when the wing spar failed, one wing came off, they both died.

http://highlandstoday.com/news/agri...estigating-golf-hammock-crash-ar-306955/

That happens a lot in older light airplanes that don't get flown much and sit outdoors all year round, rain water and condensation collect at the 'low point' which is usually under the belly, right where the main spar passes through. One of the most expensive parts of owning an airplane is all the inspections you have to comply with, on both the engine and airframe, and if they do find any corrosion, it can be VERY expensive to repair/replace.

Also, did you see that video of the fire bomber that folded up? Again, and older plane who's main spar snapped on pull up.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA


Blade F16
#777
Re: Aluminum vs. Salt (per F150) [Re: Timbo] #277953
03/12/15 07:38 PM
03/12/15 07:38 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
V
Ventucky Red Offline
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Ventucky Red  Offline
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Posts: 1,403
Originally Posted by Timbo


Also, did you see that video of the fire bomber that folded up? Again, and older plane who's main spar snapped on pull up.

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYKIGT7EgSA


Thought this was a crack in the wings from fatigue and not being fixed properly...

As much as we whine and complain about the cost of the 100 hour and annul inspections... I am glad they are there!

Been flying Delta lately.... Southwest has skipped a few rudder inspections.... didn't they learn from US Air eek



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