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The new DNA F1 A-cat #282397
04/11/16 11:34 AM
04/11/16 11:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
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I can only imagine what the price is for this sucker, but wow...check this thing out:

http://www.catsailingnews.com/2016/04/a-class-dna-2016-f1-coolest-sailboat.html


[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282398
04/11/16 11:47 AM
04/11/16 11:47 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
D
dr5e14w Offline
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D

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It definitely looks good!

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: dr5e14w] #282399
04/11/16 11:52 AM
04/11/16 11:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
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According to a DNA employee posting over at Sailing Anarchy ( LINK ), the price will be around 21,750 Euros which is about $24,800 USD right now with a boat that is "ready to sail" including all lines, etc. I find that a little hard to believe that it will be that affordable but that's what he said. I'm pretty sure the last iteration of the DNA cost that for a platform without a mast or sails.


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282400
04/11/16 12:04 PM
04/11/16 12:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
D
dr5e14w Offline
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I thought it said for a platform only no mast or sail?

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: dr5e14w] #282401
04/11/16 01:09 PM
04/11/16 01:09 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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what's with the stealth fighter front beam? Does foiling really impact significantly enough to run aerodynamic studies on the beam? I understand the trampoline part... just not the beam...


Jay

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: dr5e14w] #282402
04/11/16 01:11 PM
04/11/16 01:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Jake  Offline OP
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Originally Posted by dr5e14w
I thought it said for a platform only no mast or sail?


Hmmm. Possibly. He said:

Quote
What is quite different is our mission to make sailors being able to sail this boat within 30 minutes after delivery. It is completely ready-to-sail, everything related to a platform is included. All hardware and lines have been installed and checked too, so what could typically take days and also involve more costs for lines, cleats and your own time; all gone. The same as when buying a new car. We have a lengthy checklist prior to shipping and only release the platform if all boxes are ticked.


I suppose "ready to sail" was tempered by "everything related to a platform is included"...only after you add a mast, boom, rigging, and sail.


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: waterbug_wpb] #282403
04/11/16 01:15 PM
04/11/16 01:15 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
what's with the stealth fighter front beam? Does foiling really impact significantly enough to run aerodynamic studies on the beam? I understand the trampoline part... just not the beam...


I would think so. The wind as a power source is fixed so anything you can eek out of it would be significant at the pointy end of the fleet. In wild guess mode, I'm guessing they might see as much as a 5% bump in aero efficiency with the boat at 25 knots. Foiling upwind/cracked reaching is probably seeing close to 30 knots across the deck.


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282404
04/11/16 01:49 PM
04/11/16 01:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 381
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
enthusiast
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Posts: 381
SE MI / NE IN
First off - way cool boat. I want one. Now! Just need to rob a bank.

On the importance of drag reduction, I think its a bigger deal than we think.

Check the simplified biking drag calculator halfway down the page here: https://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/aerodynamics1.html
20mph apparent wind yields 10.5N drag = ~2.4lbF (yes, dirty units)
30mph apparent wind yields 23.7N drag = ~5.3lbF

This is for a cyclist + bike. I know its apples/oranges for us, but still meaningful

From the article:
"On a flat road, aerodynamic drag is by far the greatest barrier to a cyclist's speed, accounting for 70 to 90 percent of the resistance felt when pedaling."

On a % basis, the aero beam figures might be small compared with all the other sources of drag. But all things being equal on an absolute basis over a 40min race, it adds up.

Maybe we should start wearing skin-suits?

Last edited by rehmbo; 04/11/16 01:59 PM.

Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282407
04/11/16 03:35 PM
04/11/16 03:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
D
dr5e14w Offline
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Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by dr5e14w
I thought it said for a platform only no mast or sail?


Hmmm. Possibly. He said:

Quote
What is quite different is our mission to make sailors being able to sail this boat within 30 minutes after delivery. It is completely ready-to-sail, everything related to a platform is included. All hardware and lines have been installed and checked too, so what could typically take days and also involve more costs for lines, cleats and your own time; all gone. The same as when buying a new car. We have a lengthy checklist prior to shipping and only release the platform if all boxes are ticked.


I suppose "ready to sail" was tempered by "everything related to a platform is included"...only after you add a mast, boom, rigging, and sail.


That's how I interpreted it. But still not too bad considering the platform was close to that price before if I remember correctly.

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282408
04/11/16 04:37 PM
04/11/16 04:37 PM

M
MN3
Unregistered
MN3
Unregistered
M



yea but what happens when you bury the bows down to the front beam. does that drive you under?


And Wow is that sexy!
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
what's with the stealth fighter front beam? Does foiling really impact significantly enough to run aerodynamic studies on the beam? I understand the trampoline part... just not the beam...


I would think so. The wind as a power source is fixed so anything you can eek out of it would be significant at the pointy end of the fleet. In wild guess mode, I'm guessing they might see as much as a 5% bump in aero efficiency with the boat at 25 knots. Foiling upwind/cracked reaching is probably seeing close to 30 knots across the deck.

Last edited by MN3; 04/11/16 04:38 PM.
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282409
04/11/16 04:54 PM
04/11/16 04:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
I'm going to need a towel.


I'm boatless.
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: ] #282412
04/12/16 07:04 AM
04/12/16 07:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Originally Posted by MN3
yea but what happens when you bury the bows down to the front beam. does that drive you under?


Maybe. But you certainly won't appear on anyone's radar display with that carbon shape... So good luck seeing your nose-dive on radar/video


Jay

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: waterbug_wpb] #282416
04/12/16 07:43 AM
04/12/16 07:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
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Jake  Offline OP
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I'm a little awestruck at how this F1 DNA will probably redefine what a "modern catamaran" will be in the near future. They put a lot of thought into this boat. While I'm still not sold that foiling is everything it's cracked up to be (particularly on inland lakes), boats like this make it start to really look purposeful. The fact that Mischa was foiling this thing upwind and tacking through 105 degrees is impressive.

I bet the mast will see the next development step with a different profile. Although bend characteristics have changed quite a bit, the standard a-cat mast configuration has been relatively unchanged for several decades and it just looks "old" when it sits atop this boat.


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282417
04/12/16 07:50 AM
04/12/16 07:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
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I presume you guys also noticed that the trampoline has an upper and lower layer. The control lines that go through the top do not penetrate the bottom to keep the air flowing through the bottom smooth.

[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282428
04/12/16 10:42 AM
04/12/16 10:42 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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JC mentioned in his podcast about the benefit lower COE when foiling. perhaps this might indeed change mast/sail/wing design as well?


Jay

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282433
04/12/16 03:57 PM
04/12/16 03:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
I've been thinking that front beam fairing needed to happen for several weeks now. It also helps solve the problem of the mast rotation bar which was less than ideal.

I love the boat, visually I think it obsoletes all of the current foilers. I have mixed feelings on that. Though I am glad the see the price is similar.

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282434
04/12/16 08:07 PM
04/12/16 08:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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I've been wondering if the stability of foiling means a wing mast would pay now?

I want one. badly.


I'm boatless.
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #282435
04/13/16 08:12 AM
04/13/16 08:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
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found a price list. Fully equipped in clear carbon with foil covers, boat yard cover, lycra trailering cover, mast, boom, standing riggin/trap, sail (decksweeper), etc....30.690 Euros ($35,000 USD) before delivery / taxes.

If you want it painted a color, it's an extra $1,100.



Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Karl_Brogger] #282436
04/13/16 08:15 AM
04/13/16 08:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
I've been wondering if the stability of foiling means a wing mast would pay now?


That's kinda what I was thinking about the mast development. Maybe not a full-on wing sail (weight) but a significantly larger (possibly structured) mast with a smaller fabric sail behind it. ...Something somewhat between both worlds.


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282437
04/13/16 08:35 AM
04/13/16 08:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Naples, FL
Ben Hall talked about his in JCs podcast, too. Apparently with a few updates it would be ideal.


Jay

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