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Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282440
04/13/16 12:18 PM
04/13/16 12:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
L
Lost in Translation Offline
journeyman
Lost in Translation  Offline
journeyman
L

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
I agree that this boat is bad butt. All of the details look so nicely executed. I think a few are coming to the US this summer as are new eXploders. As I understand it, both manufacturers now use CFD for analysis and design. Incredible to see that level of refinement for a small catamaran.

Foiling is really powerful even in the lake environment. At Lake Lanier in lighter air if I or others can get on the foils, the distance to other boats increases dramatically. At the very best case for foilers in just foiling conditions, they can sail about the same angle as a boat that is going mild downwind but be foiling. It's a good thing we have gone to breaking out classic and foiling boats in scores for this reason.

The downside seems to be that as the boats get more optimized for foiling, they are suffering on mild downwind performance. I haven't seen any deck sweeper that will go as well as a regular sail and boom configuration in light air downwind.

When I bought a DNA before in 2012, it was 15.5K Euros for the platform, so this one has gone up about 5K Euros and a ton of advancement in style and design and performance.

PS - check out the sealed trampoline Bach made for me on the eXploder. I think he has gotten quite a few orders and has started putting a lighter pentex material underneath to reduce weight a couple of months ago just like the newly released DNA. Way to go Carolina Sails in Greenville, SC. I noticed the boat felt quicker upwind even when sailing with a traditional rig and not the deck sweeper Bach built for me that I use now. I also seem to be getting better gas mileage when towing and noticed the trailer getting a little skittish at 80. It's cool that both the DNA and eXploders from the last several years are already built with a wing shape in the underside of the trampoline. [img]https://www.dropbox.com/s/fgjgssc2z6yf0jp/2015-11-20%2016.28.19.jpg?dl=0[/img]



-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Lost in Translation] #282442
04/13/16 03:50 PM
04/13/16 03:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
I really wish you guys would come up with another moniker than "classic".


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282443
04/13/16 04:48 PM
04/13/16 04:48 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Like what, "floater" or "wave hugger"?

That new boat is unbelievable.

Mike

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282446
04/14/16 04:06 AM
04/14/16 04:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
Originally Posted by Jake
I really wish you guys would come up with another moniker than "classic".


average
classic
clichéd
conventional
exemplary
hackneyed
model
most characteristic
paradigmatic
prime
quintessential
representative
standard
stereotypical
stock
textbook


USA 777
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: tback] #282447
04/14/16 06:09 AM
04/14/16 06:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by tback
Originally Posted by Jake
I really wish you guys would come up with another moniker than "classic".


average
classic
clichéd
conventional
exemplary
hackneyed
model
most characteristic
paradigmatic
prime
quintessential
representative
standard
stereotypical
stock
textbook


No, no, no...something contextually entirely different. A "classic" car is old as crap. My A-cat is not old. To infer that an A-cat that is only a few years old is a "classic" is just terrible marketing for the class, bad for boat resale value, and marginally insulting (it's obvious that the "classic" moniker was conceived by people who owned foilers). Besides, the real "classic" a-cats have always been the higher weight wood a-cats that even have their own portsmouth rating.

Full Foiler, semi-foiler...something like that. We essentially have two different classes of boats. While it's likely that the future class will eventually be all foilers, that isn't set in stone just yet. Even the non-foiling A-cats are a genuine pleasure to sail and unlike what happened with the moth, there really isn't another boat that competes with the features of either a-cat variation.

Maybe the foilers should be the ones that get a new designation - let's call them A-cat-BMWs. (Buying My Wins) grin


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282448
04/14/16 07:40 AM
04/14/16 07:40 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
L
Lost in Translation Offline
journeyman
Lost in Translation  Offline
journeyman
L

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
Good feedback, Jake. I'm not sure where the classic term came about. I probably first heard it from John Scheifer a few years ago when the C board boats were going faster and faster. John is definitely not a foiler!

You are exactly right on all the boats being quite good as they are. A 2002 Flyer will still give tremendous pleasure to sail compared to most any other cat out there.

Sometimes people say floaters and foilers. And the importer of eXploder called himself a sinker because he is a non-foiling foiler. I'm up for any good name and welcome ideas.

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282449
04/14/16 10:50 AM
04/14/16 10:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
jollyrodgers Offline
enthusiast
jollyrodgers  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 307
maui
Looks like built in one piece like the Whisper cat from England. That would account for the lighter weight and the shape of the beams. very cool
Some one should re visit the sloop rig now that they are stable foiling.

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Lost in Translation] #282450
04/14/16 11:59 AM
04/14/16 11:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Lost in Translation
...I probably first heard it from John Scheifer a few years ...


That might explain it grin English isn't his thing.


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282451
04/14/16 12:18 PM
04/14/16 12:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
"Displacers"?

Or "low-riders"?


Jay

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282452
04/14/16 02:54 PM
04/14/16 02:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
L
Lost in Translation Offline
journeyman
Lost in Translation  Offline
journeyman
L

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 69
I kinda like low-riders.

The problem is the older C board boats still foil too, but not very often. I watched Ken Marshak foiling upwind one time on his 2012 DNA C board boat when sailing in heavy air on a close reach back to the beach. It wasn't stable flight but it was definitely getting up there. And here is another video of him sailing in heavy air and trying to get air born by mistake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzgmXL32U5s

low-riders is fun.

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282455
04/15/16 09:02 AM
04/15/16 09:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
old hand

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Thanks for the shout-out Bailey.

I thought the old boats were called the intergalactic fleet?

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: bacho] #282456
04/15/16 11:56 AM
04/15/16 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by bacho
Thanks for the shout-out Bailey.

I thought the old boats were called the intergalactic fleet?


"Intergalactic" started when the ISAF started giving people fits over using the word "World" in the event name. They threatened to ban sailors that participated in any sailing event with "World" in the title that wasn't an official ISAF event. Hence, some events started calling themselves the Intergalactic Championship instead. I think the Hobie Waves did this a few times.

I suspect in this case, that the A-cat "Intergalactic" event is another phrase we owe to that humorous Swedish John fellow wink


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282457
04/15/16 01:18 PM
04/15/16 01:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
So the 2016 global A-cat Low-Rider championships will be held where?


Jay

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: waterbug_wpb] #282458
04/15/16 01:27 PM
04/15/16 01:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
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South Carolina
I keep coming back to something like "A1" and "A2" for the foiler/non-foiler but the dad-gum manufacturers have been numbering their models with number designations that this would be really confusing.

Maybe we need a couple of sponsors to make us like Busch Cup and Sprint Cup grin


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282459
04/15/16 07:06 PM
04/15/16 07:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 38
Lugoff, South Carolina
Mac McCallum Offline
newbie
Mac McCallum  Offline
newbie

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 38
Lugoff, South Carolina
Green Room Graphics Cup sounds goo


'09 Viper F16 USA102
A Cat USA 366

Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282461
04/17/16 05:50 AM
04/17/16 05:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
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Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
I see the T rudders on this boat, but how are they adjusting the tilt of the daggers, or are they not? I didn't see any mechanisms on the hulls to adjust the rake of the boards/foils.

And I agree that adding a hard wing sail would make it even faster, but then you're really going to need a lot of help launching/retrieving it, more so if you have to insert the boards from the bottom with a full wing up on top, going to be a pita, and you'll need a big box to store the wing mast in too.


Blade F16
#777
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Timbo] #282462
04/17/16 06:55 AM
04/17/16 06:55 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline OP
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Rudder rake adjustment:
[Linked Image]

The top red plastic piece slides fore and aft to adjust the top of the daggerboard / daggerboard rake. Presumably there is a threaded wheel / line mechanism inside the hull to adjust the board rake.

[Linked Image]

Here's a LINK to the bigger picture.


Jake Kohl
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282463
04/17/16 07:18 AM
04/17/16 07:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Ahhhh, there it is! Thanks Jake. That is one slick looking beast!

For you guys who do foil, how much time, or how many times do you need to adjust the board rake while under way? Can you do it while out on the wire, or do you pretty much know about where to set it based on the wind/wave conditions, then set it and forget it? Is there an upwind setting, and a different one for downwind?

And once you set the starboard board, do you then have to crawl across the tramp to set the port board to match, or do they both move with one line?


Blade F16
#777
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282464
04/17/16 07:25 AM
04/17/16 07:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Timbo Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Timbo  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,046
Sebring, Florida.
Here's something else that flies, for only $16,000.

http://www.barnstormers.com/cat.php?mode=listing&main=

Click on the second add, the Kolb Firestar 2


Blade F16
#777
Re: The new DNA F1 A-cat [Re: Jake] #282467
04/18/16 08:09 AM
04/18/16 08:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
wow.. is that a fish-eye lens on the camera? It almost looks as if one hull is longer (the near one) than the other (far one)...

Just looking at this gives me newfound respect for anyone who can fly this thing effectively with only two hands... let me think:
- adjust mainsheet/traveler
- adjust diamond tension
- adjust downhaul
- adjust daggar depth
- adjust daggar angle
- adjust rudder rake/angle

oh yeah... and steer, trap out, move weight around, etc.

How the F do you keep your "head out of the boat" with all that going on?

Last edited by waterbug_wpb; 04/18/16 08:12 AM.

Jay

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