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Nacra Class Rules #282656
05/19/16 08:12 AM
05/19/16 08:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 160
North Carolina
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abbman Offline OP
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Can anyone direct me to the Nacra Class Rules? I am having trouble finding them. I am specifically looking for rules pertaining to the 5.2 class, even though I know they are no longer in production. Specifically, I am looking for the rules that state main sail and jib sail requirements for class racing. This is to determine conformity of a sail being used at my local club for open portsmouth racing. I believe the Nacra 5.2 rules, in their last version, required a class legal boat to carry the original pin-top sail plan. Any help in locating these documents would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by abbman; 05/19/16 08:12 AM.

James
1983 Hobie 16'
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282658
05/19/16 08:59 AM
05/19/16 08:59 AM
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jaybird1111 Offline
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Nacra Class Rules
Pertaining to One Design Control as Amended for North America
4.5 450 5.0 500 5.2 5.5uni 5.5sl 5.7 570 5.8 5.8na 6.0na

1. OBJECT OF CLASS RULES

1.1 The International Nacra Class Catamarans are each a one design
manufacturers class. The rules, official plans and specifications are
intended to ensure that the catamarans of these classes are as nearly as possible the same in regards to shape, weight of hulls, daggerboards, rudders, spars, sails, and that the equipment is simple, functional and dependable. The ultimate intent is to encourage the use of only racing tactics and sailing skill to increase boat speed.

2. PROTECTION OF INT'L NACRA CLASS DESIGNS
2.1 Unless otherwise specified in these rules, all parts of these Nacra Class Catamarans are strictly controlled. Interpretations of these rules shall be given by Nacra in consultation with proper committees of the International Nacra Class Association (hereinafter referred to as INCA). In the event of a conflict between rules, official plans, measurement form and/or measurement diagram, the matter shall be referred to INCA, (NOTE: To doubly guard against "loophole restruction" of these fine International Class Catamarans and their potential for lasting racing pleasure, every deviation which is not specifically spelled out by plans, specifications or Design Rule is assumed illegal until approved and thus recorded in writing by those administering the Class Designing Rules.

2.2 MOLD All molds, patterns and templates for the hulls, daggerboards, and rudders shall be constructed solely by Nacra or the builders licensed for that purpose by Nacra, for Nacra.

2.3 ALTERATIONS TO MOLDS. No alterations shall be made to any molds,
official patterns or templates.

2. 4 CONTROL OF MOLDS. All molds shall be pulled from the official class plugs maintained by Performance Catamarans, Inc. (hereinafter referred to as P.C., Inc.), and shall not be modified in shape except to fair any surface imperfections.

3. HULLS, DAGGERBOARDS AND RUDDERS
3.1 THE MANUFACTURE of hulls, daggerboards and rudders is strictly controlled by Nacra. Licenses to build these components are issued by Nacra for Nacra.

3. 2 ALTERATIONS to hull, daggerboards and rudders. Grinding, planing,
sanding and/or application of putty, fillers and coatings on the outside surface are permitted provided that it is undertaken to fair local imperfections in these surfaces or to improve the surface finish and not to alter the intended shape of any surface.


3.3 LIGHTENlNG OF HULLS.
The hulls may not be lightened in any manner. A maximum of three inspection ports per hull are allowed. Inspection ports are not permitted forward of the main beam. None may have an opening larger than 6".

3.4 RUDDERS.
The rudder and rudder stock assembly, including the method of attachment to the transom is not to be modified. Rudders may be raked to attain helm balance.

3.5 DAGGERBOARD.
The top of the daggerboard may not be inserted below the deck level. Hand holds in the daggerboards may be added. The bottom of the handholds will then be considered the top of the daggerboard and may not be inserted below deck level. No part of the daggerboard or daggerboard well may be removed or added for the purpose of varying rake. All daggerboards manufactured by Nacra are legal for racing except ones which require modification of daggerboard or daggerboard well to accommodate them.

4. SPARS

4.1 CONSTRUCTION.
The material, method of construction and design of the spars shall be in accordance with these rules and official Spar Plan. The mast, spreader, boom, beam, tiller and tiller tie bars shall be fabricated only by Nacra for Nacra.

4.1a. Carbon mast by a licensed builder is considered class legal in the 5.5uni.

4.1b Only carbon masts built prior to August 31, 1997 and registered and approved with class association will be class legal on the Nacra 6.0na.

4.2 MAST.
The extrusion length and position of the mast head, mast hound, jib halyard strap eye, spreader and mast base are not to be altered in any manner. The gooseneck may not be lower than 10' from the bottom of the extrusion. Diamond wire tangs may not be raised or lowered but may be moved either to the front or side of the mast.

4.3 SPREADERS.
The spreader arm lengths may not be altered. Nacra adjustable rake spreaders are allowable on all models. The diamond wires are to be securely attached at the spreader ends.

4.4 BOOM.
The extrusion length and the method of attachment to the gooseneck are not to be altered. The mainsheet blocks are to be hung from permanently fixed bales. On the 5.2, bales may not be affixed aft of the original position. All other running rigging hardware is optional. No booms may be used on boomless designed rigs.


4.5 Bridle Foils.
The 5.5sl., 5.8na., and 6.0na. bridle foil lengths, hardware, and fittings may not be altered. 6.0 may use original foil when modified to na rig.

4.6 MAIN BEAM.
The extrusion length. mast step and dolphin striker assembly are not to be altered. Internal controls may be installed.

4.7 REAR BEAM.
The rear beam may not be altered with the following exceptions: The stops under the beam may be altered to allow hull alignment. Internal controls may be installed for crew restrainer system only.

4.8 TILLERS, TILLER TIE BAR AND EXTENSION.
Tillers may be toed-in and tiller tie bar shortened. Tiller extensions
(hiking sticks) and design are optional.

4.8a Tiller to tiller tie bar connection fittings are open to modification or change.

4.9 LIGHTENING OF SPARS.
No holes may be drilled, filed or cut into any manufacturer supplied
component, spar or casting for the purpose of reducing weight.

5. RIGGING

5.1 CONSTRUCTION.
All standard rigging (including diamond wires) shall conform with the wire types and,diameters shown in the manufacturers rigging schedule. Running rigging and associated fittings, sizes, types and lengths are optional. The main halyard, jib halyard and trapeze wire diameters shalt not to be less than those shown in the rigging schedule. Rope tails on halyards are permitted. Jib halyards may not be led internally in the mast. Halyards must be long enough to raise and lower sails while the boat is in an upright position. (NOTE: Bridle length is measured from bearing point to bearing point. The 4.5 and 5.0 bridle length includes shackle attachment to bow. The 5.8na bridle (hull to foil) attachment hardware is open to: stainless steel wire or fittings (ie., stay adjuster, turnbuckle, etc.)

Rigging Schedule Wire Type Diameter Class Lengths
Shrouds 1X19 5/32
Forestay 1x19 5/32
Diamond Wires 1x19 1/8
Main Halyard 7x19 1/8
Jib Halyard 7x19 1/8
Trapeze Wires 1x19 3/32
Bridle 1x19 5/32 4.5/450: 3'10-3/4"
Bridle 1x19 5132 5.0/500: 4' 1-1/4"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 5.2: 3' 11"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 5.5uni: 18 '7 I/2"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 5.5sl: 18"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 5.7/570: 4' 1-1/4"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 5.8: 3' 10-1/2"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 5.8na: 6-5/8"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 6.0na: 11-1/2"
Bridle 1x19 5/32 182: 19' 3/4"
5.2 MAIN AND JIB LUFF tension systems are optional but may not be led inside the mast. (Note: Refer to 5.6c)

5.3 TRAPEZE.
Double trapeze is allowed on all but the 4.5, 450 and 5.5uni models, No continuous trapeze systems are allowed.

5.4 FOOT STRAPS, SAFETY LINES, or the like may be added to assist the crew to trapeze. Hiking assist inboard is optional.

5.5 ALTERATIONS. Lengths of bridal wires are not to be altered. Jib tack attachment may not be below bridle intersection- The forestay or its extension is to be attached at the bridle intersection. The forestay, shrouds, and diamond wires shall not be adjusted while racing.

5.6 EQUIPMENT may be added or changed to conform with current or previously supplied Nacra series production equipment. All such equipment supplied by Nacra shall be considered class legal.

5.6a Main sheet purchase may not exceed 8:1 on any boat. Multipliers or fine tune systems are not allowed.

5.6b Trampolines on all boats manufactured with a 1995 serial number and newer must be equipped with a Nacra licensed tramp. Hiking straps, gear and spinnaker bags may be added. The size, shape and attachment method of trampolines may not be altered.

5.6c Downhaul 4.5, 450 may not exceed 4:1; 5.0, 5.2 and 5.7 may not exceed 8:1 purchase. Nacra 5.5sl, Uni, 5.8, 5.8na and 6.0na may not exceed 16 to 1. All purchases above 8:1 may void manufacturers warranty.

5.6d Jib downhauls may not exceed 3:1 on 4.5, 5.0, 5.2, 5.7, and 8:1 on 5.5sl, 5.8na, and 6.0na. (Note: These purchases may void warranty)

5.7 RACING If, during a racing series, failure of a part appears imminent or is damaged or broken, the affected equipment (only) may be repaired or replaced. Repair or replacement may only be made using class legal equipment.

5.8 RUNNING RIGGING and associated blocks, shackles and cleats are not
controlled except as specified in these rules.

6. SAILS AND BATTENS

6.1 CONSTRUCTION. The material, method of construction and design of the sails shall the in accordance with the sail plan. The sails for the Nacra 4.5, 4.5uni, 5.0, 5.2, 5.5 uni, 5.5 SL, 5.7, 5.8, 5.8na and 6.0na shall be built for Nacra from patterns and sail cloth approved by Nacra. Sails shall be fabricated by builders licensed by Nacra for Nacra. Battens may be of wood, carbon, foam fiberglass. A set may consist of a combination of these types. All but the bottom batten must be used for racing (only one batten per pocket is permitted).

6.2a ALTERATIONS. The jibsail may not be recut. Windows, telltale windows, and chart pockets are optional. Class insignias may not be repositioned or altered in any manner.

6.2b SAIL REINFORCEMENT. Chaffing strips may be added to the mainsail
batten pockets where they come in contact with the shrouds. Spreader patches are allowed.

6.3 LUFF ROPE. The entire mainsail luff rope must be in the mast luff
grooves except where the sail extends below the bottom of the extrusion on boomless rigs.

6.4 CLEW TRAVELER. A clew traveler assembly (factory supplied) may be added to any boomless sail plan that was not equipped with one originally.

6.5 SAIL REPAIR. Any sailmaker may make minor repairs to a damaged Nacra sail. Minor repair is defined as a repair that does not alter the original shape or outline of the sail. Should a sail be so badly damaged as to require a large percentage of new material, such as a complete panel replacement, it should be returned to an INCA licensed sailmaker.

7. CREW AND BOAT WEIGHTS: Class Legal Minimums
7.1a The 4.5/450 class legal minimum crew weight is 135lbs. (minimum person)

7.1c The 5.0/500 class legal minimum crew weight is 260 lbs- (minimum two people),

7.1d The 5.2 class legal minimum crew weight is 280 lbs. (minimum two
people).

7.1e The 5.5 uni class legal minimum crew weight is 150 lbs. (minimum one person),

7.1f The 5.5sl class legal minimum crew weight is 275 lbs.. (minimum two people). 5.5sl without jib is considered a class legal 5.5uni.

7.1g The 5.7/570 class legal minimum crew weight is 290 lbs. (minimum two people).

7.1h The 5.8/5.8na class legal minimum crew weight is 290 lbs. (minimum two people). A class legal 5.8 must weigh 420 lbs. minimum.

7.1i The 6.0na class legal minimum crew weight is 325 lbs. (minimum two people).

7.2 WEIGHT.
7.2a. CREW WEIGHT
Minimum crew weights shall apply to all sanctioned Nacra regattas. Crews are to be weighed bare-footed and wear as a maximum, clothing consisting of one pair of shorts or pants (pockets empty) and one t-shirt or similar. Normal undergarments may also be worn with the aforementioned clothing. The maximum amount of weight to be added to reach legal class weights exceed:
7.2b. BOAT WEIGHT
Boats not reaching class crew weights are considered not class legal.

7.3 CORRECTION WEIGHTS.
Boats and crew correction weights must be separate weights. Boat and crew correction weights must be secured on the boat in a stationary position and be easily accessible for inspection.

7.4 SAFETY EQUIPMENT.
All Nacra catamarans must carry safety equipment required by the Coast Guard while racing.

7.4a One Coast Guard approved type I, II or III PFD must be worn by each crewmember while racing.

7.4b A righting line of 3/8" minimum diameter and 14' minimum length.

7.5 CREW BALLAST. Additional clothing, vests or containers may not be worn or carried while racing for the purpose of varying or increasing crew weight when so desired.

8. SPINNAKERS, POLES, AND RIGGING
8.1 Spinnakers are not considered class legal for Nacra sanction regattas, but are legal for long distance type regattas if the Nacras are racing against one another as a one design class. Spinnakers shall be fabricated by builders licensed by Nacra for Nacra. Spinnakers may not be re-cut.

8.2 POLES
Lengths shall not exceed: 5.5sl - 11' 6"; 5.8/5.8na - 12';
6.0na - 12' 6" Construction and attachment is left to the boat owner.

8.3 Rigging spinnaker attachment point shall be 36" above the top of the mast
hound. All lines and blocks are left to the boat owner. The boat stock
configurations may not altered, when rigging the boat for spinnaker [example: changing bridle length, foiler, and/or any change that would change the structure of said boat.] Adding a spinnaker may void any manufacture warranty.

9. WARRANTY
9.1 MODIFICATION allowed by these class rules may not necessarily be covered by the manufacturer's warranty.

10. COMMUNICATIONS, RULE INTERPRETATION AND AMENDMENTS

10.1 Valid questions regarding these rules must be mailed to INCA
headquarters.

10.2 Class rules may vary slightly from one country to another. Do not assume that the rules that apply for the U.S. will apply in another country. Be certain to familiarize yourself with the class rules of the country in which you are competing. A licensed Nacra builder in another country may modify the INCA class rules for that country provided that they have been approved by Nacra USA.

10.2a The manufacturer (Nacra) reserves the right to make changes to the class rules, if the class [4.5 etc.] membership falls below fifty active class members.

10.2b Class vote is to be held only by active class members, that are class members prior to the issue being voted on. An Active class member is a Nacra class boat owner, who annual class dues have been paid.

10.2c Annual Class Dues cover membership membership from Jan. 1st. thru Dec. 31 st. of the year paid.

10.3 For International Events the class rules will be approved by INCA and the Nacra manufacturer and listed in the racing instructions.

10.4 INCA consists of a governing board of directors, Fleet Directors, and an Official Rules and Policies Committee. Class rules are governed by the manufacturer.

10.4a Rules changes a proposal to amend an existing class rule or a change in a boat design. Send a detailed letter to Rules and policies committee. Ballot wording and content is the responsibility of the Rules And Policies Committee.






The INCA mailing address is:

International Nacra Class Association
1800 East Borchard Avenue
Santa Ana, California 92705
U.S.A.

revisions

7.1a changed

7.1b removed

















Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282659
05/19/16 09:03 AM
05/19/16 09:03 AM
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Posts: 160
North Carolina
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abbman Offline OP
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You're the man! Thanks a million! Hopefully this will help us resolve some issues.


James
1983 Hobie 16'
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282660
05/19/16 11:34 AM
05/19/16 11:34 AM
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Eastern NC, USA
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tshan Offline
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What other sail makers are licensed by NACRA (besides EP)?


Tom
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282663
05/19/16 12:43 PM
05/19/16 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
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North Carolina
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abbman Offline OP
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I'm not sure about that one, but where do you sail tshan? I see you are in Eastern NC.


James
1983 Hobie 16'
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: tshan] #282667
05/19/16 06:47 PM
05/19/16 06:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Originally Posted by tshan
What other sail makers are licensed by NACRA (besides EP)?


Performance Sails is making all Nacra sails now but I would have to say that they probably don't make many 5.2 sails. EP would be about it.

As far as sail area goes, sailboatdata.com is usually pretty accurate but they only list a total sail area of 220 ft^2.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=4176

I dug through my old photos and it's probably good to archive them...
https://www.flickr.com/photos/teamseacats/albums/72157668626370955




Jake Kohl
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282669
05/19/16 08:33 PM
05/19/16 08:33 PM
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Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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And now you see the problem with the older Nacra one design class rules. They don't publish sail area or measurement rules (check the F18 rules for an example of what I'm talking about). This is a problem when actually checking if a boat conforms to the rules (it's easy to peel a sticker and put it on a non class legal sail). It also hampers sail development, and makes life difficult when the builder drops support.

For example, the N20 with Glaser sails is a much faster boat than the EP version in a majority of conditions one actually wants to sail in. Not sure if the performance sails for the boat are on par, I heard the main cut was a bit off and more to the euro spec (smaller sail plan overall) than the North American spec. I haven't seen the sails myself so that is just hearsay but measure twice cut once applies here.

5.2 is totally different, your best bet is it measure the newest known class legal sail and go from there. Also recommend looking at SCHRS, it may handle your discrepancies a bit more cleanly than Portsmouth.

Last edited by samc99us; 05/19/16 08:34 PM.

Scorpion F18
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282696
05/23/16 03:42 PM
05/23/16 03:42 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by abbman
Can anyone direct me to the Nacra Class Rules? I am having trouble finding them. I am specifically looking for rules pertaining to the 5.2 class, even though I know they are no longer in production. Specifically, I am looking for the rules that state main sail and jib sail requirements for class racing. This is to determine conformity of a sail being used at my local club for open portsmouth racing. I believe the Nacra 5.2 rules, in their last version, required a class legal boat to carry the original pin-top sail plan. Any help in locating these documents would be greatly appreciated.


From what I understand; just about all of the 5.2 sails we made from Dacron and made by Elliott Patteson.

I would put the burden of proof back on the owner... unless they can prove otherwise they should take non-class legal sail hit... DP-N X .995 in this case 72.1 X .995 = 71.73.

Quote
MN For non-class legal mainsail, of same sail area or less than class legal mainsail (use to be the Sq Top rule)


Is the boat in question sailing with a square top sail then its a .980 factor... 72.1 X .980 = 70.65

Quote
ML - For non-class legal mainsail, of greater sail area (>5%) than standard main.


But, and there is always a but... with these sails hitting 30 plus years old and many folks upgrading their sails out of necessity; if it is a pin top I would let it go, square top use the modification factor...

Last edited by Ventucky Red; 05/23/16 03:51 PM.
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282762
06/01/16 01:47 PM
06/01/16 01:47 PM
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Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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Is it a sq top? Use the correction Ventucky Red provided and I really wouldn't worry about the jib. If the jib is standard cut its oversized and probably more of a hindrance than a help. If anyone re-works an old 5.2 I suggest a self tacker with a small F18 jib and a Sq top. The jib tracks were never my favorite on these boats as they were run through the tramp.


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282771
06/02/16 09:31 AM
06/02/16 09:31 AM
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wildtsail7 Offline
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Okay, let's clear the air here because this is very important.

Nacra does not currently offer class rules for any of our boats that are not current racing classes.
Having class rules to cover multiple classes of boats is too broad and there are too many variables to make accurate and fair class rules.
Additionally, we donít want to dictate class rules fully from the manufacturer. Any of our current "manufacturer supplied classes" we work with the class to finalize all rules.
There are class rules for specific active classes run by the class.
If a group of Nacra owners wants to form a class and make class rules then we would support that.
In the meantime, any boats that are stock adhere to the standard portsmouth or other rating number and those that donít will take a deduction in their rating per the handicap system being used.
Stock is as supplied or identical to the OEM.

Class legal sails, Itís easiest to go to Elliot Patterson and have them make you sails. Any non-OEM cut from EP or anyone other sailmaker would not be class legal and would require a modification.
Nacra approves Elliot Patterson for all boats that they made OEM sails for. That is all boats through the Nacra F18 and Nacra 20 essentially boat built through 2005, Performance Sails are the approved sails for all Nacras. My personal recommendation would be to go to Elliot Patterson for the Nacra 4.5, 5.0, 5.2, 5.5, 5.7, 5.8, and 6.0, again, these sails from EP that match the OEM design would be class legal.

Regards,
Todd Riccardi
Nacra North America
Todd@Nacrasailing.com

Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282818
06/05/16 01:22 AM
06/05/16 01:22 AM
Joined: May 2006
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Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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http://www.goosemarine.com.au/content/Other-2010-Nacra-class-rules.pdf
If you go to this link it makes it pretty obvious for Aus sailors what the current rules are, next thing is to contact Nacra US and get a copy of their current rules


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: wildtsail7] #282821
06/06/16 09:32 AM
06/06/16 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by wildtsail7

In the meantime, any boats that are stock adhere to the standard portsmouth or other rating number and those that donít will take a deduction in their rating per the handicap system being used.
Stock is as supplied or identical to the OEM.

Regards,
Todd Riccardi
Nacra North America
Todd@Nacrasailing.com


Thanks for making this observation Todd... this is something I have been trying to explain for the past couple of years... as detailed above, that is unless it is the sail that came with the boat or new sail built built by the OEM sail maker to those specs then you need to take the modification... as the DP-N rating was done with the "stock" equipment..

Glad to see I am not the only one interpreting this with the DP-N and modification factors..




Last edited by Ventucky Red; 06/06/16 09:32 AM.
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: Ventucky Red] #282822
06/06/16 12:38 PM
06/06/16 12:38 PM
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Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
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Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by wildtsail7

In the meantime, any boats that are stock adhere to the standard portsmouth or other rating number and those that donít will take a deduction in their rating per the handicap system being used.
Stock is as supplied or identical to the OEM.

Regards,
Todd Riccardi
Nacra North America
Todd@Nacrasailing.com


Thanks for making this observation Todd... this is something I have been trying to explain for the past couple of years... as detailed above, that is unless it is the sail that came with the boat or new sail built built by the OEM sail maker to those specs then you need to take the modification... as the DP-N rating was done with the "stock" equipment..

Glad to see I am not the only one interpreting this with the DP-N and modification factors..





I see things a little differently.

If your not sailing in an active class and by that I mean 5 boats or more on the course there is no class.

My comments here pertain to sails.

For us and our races we do not hit someone for not having a class approved sail as long as it's within +/- 5% of the stock square footage or fits to a set of stock length battens and of the same style (pin head or square). Material and manufacturer does not matter.


Have Fun
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282824
06/06/16 02:55 PM
06/06/16 02:55 PM
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brucat Offline
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Where is this dead class provision written? Seems like a viable solution, so long as not abused by a competitor.

Mike

Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: catman] #282825
06/06/16 03:03 PM
06/06/16 03:03 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by catman
Originally Posted by Ventucky Red
Originally Posted by wildtsail7

In the meantime, any boats that are stock adhere to the standard portsmouth or other rating number and those that donít will take a deduction in their rating per the handicap system being used.
Stock is as supplied or identical to the OEM.

Regards,
Todd Riccardi
Nacra North America
Todd@Nacrasailing.com


Thanks for making this observation Todd... this is something I have been trying to explain for the past couple of years... as detailed above, that is unless it is the sail that came with the boat or new sail built built by the OEM sail maker to those specs then you need to take the modification... as the DP-N rating was done with the "stock" equipment..

Glad to see I am not the only one interpreting this with the DP-N and modification factors..





I see things a little differently.

If your not sailing in an active class and by that I mean 5 boats or more on the course there is no class.

My comments here pertain to sails.

For us and our races we do not hit someone for not having a class approved sail as long as it's within +/- 5% of the stock square footage or fits to a set of stock length battens and of the same style (pin head or square). Material and manufacturer does not matter.


We're not discussing class racing here we're discussing Portsmouth Handicapping... To me there is a difference...

The rating for the 5.2 is 72.1.. this came about with the stock cross cut Dacron sail that was designed in what 1978 shocked

Say you go out and get a newer sail using newer materials, design, and technology. You don't think there is an advantage to another 5.2 sailing that day with a stock sail even if it is a brand new one built by EP? Certainly there have been some improvements in sail making knowledge in the past 38 years... I think Portsmouth / US Failing in their infinite wisdom sees this.. hence the modification factor

Let's say your sail has a higher aspect ratio or maybe even a bi-radial sail... due to computer modeling and designing... something not around in 1978... you're is still a pin top and still less than 5% total area... but....

As I stated earlier, I don't get into the discussion much as I have not seen too many new sails that weren't a square top and that makes the conversation pretty easy.

Add in... wasn't there a big pissing contest a while back with the NACRA 20 sailors regarding someone other than EP (which were the "official" class sail) making the sails and their not taking a modification factor.... seemed the new sail maker hit the mark with a better designed sail making those boats a little faster...





Last edited by Ventucky Red; 06/06/16 03:24 PM.
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282826
06/06/16 05:22 PM
06/06/16 05:22 PM
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samc99us Offline
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Ventucky, I will speak primarily to the Nacra 20 issue but this applies to all. First, there are a few different issues at stake here:

1) Portsmouth is pretty dead. Boats should be using SCHRS IMO, and they have clear guidelines on how to measure a boat to get a rating (if it differs from stock). Really it is looking at total sail area (power) to length and weight

2) On the 20, and really any older Nacra built boat, it was/is up to the owners to maintain the class as Todd has stated, and this is where the problem lies. The owners never took this upon themselves (well, we tried but it was too little too late), but EP/Nacra did the 20 fleet no favors by failing to publish class legal sail specifications. Several builders (Glaser, Schurr sails, Smyth, Calvert even) have built sails for N20's at this point (search Open 20), and those are sort of obvious, but how they differ from the class legal EP sails is a bit unclear, because there are no measurements published for a class legal N20 main/jib/kite. To further obfuscate the matter, not all EP N20 sails are built to the same templates. Perhaps they start out that way, perhaps they don't, regardless, I have evaluated N20 EP kites stacked on top of each other, under tension, and noticed upwards of 5" of luff length discrepancy between batches of kites. Some kites were stitched from the factor, some weren't, they all were class legal N20 EP built spinnakers. Further, a sticker is a sticker, you can remove an EP sticker and place it on a Glaser sail for example. I don't think 99% of the populace would do such a thing, but in a very competitive race billed as taking place in single manufacturer one-design boat (which is what the N20 class was billed as when Nacra was wholly owned and operated in the U.S), certain individuals with highly competitive juices may have been swapping stickers on certain sails between days to gain a competitive edge. This sort of nonsense was mostly eliminated in the F18 class by use of a published measurement template.

Last edited by samc99us; 06/06/16 05:24 PM.

Scorpion F18
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: samc99us] #282827
06/06/16 05:33 PM
06/06/16 05:33 PM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by samc99us
Ventucky, I will speak primarily to the Nacra 20 issue but this applies to all. First, there are a few different issues at stake here:

1) Portsmouth is pretty dead. Boats should be using SCHRS IMO, and they have clear guidelines on how to measure a boat to get a rating (if it differs from stock). Really it is looking at total sail area (power) to length and weight

2) On the 20, and really any older Nacra built boat, it was/is up to the owners to maintain the class as Todd has stated, and this is where the problem lies. The owners never took this upon themselves (well, we tried but it was too little too late), but EP/Nacra did the 20 fleet no favors by failing to publish class legal sail specifications. Several builders (Glaser, Schurr sails, Smyth, Calvert even) have built sails for N20's at this point (search Open 20), and those are sort of obvious, but how they differ from the class legal EP sails is a bit unclear, because there are no measurements published for a class legal N20 main/jib/kite. To further obfuscate the matter, not all EP N20 sails are built to the same templates. Perhaps they start out that way, perhaps they don't, regardless, I have evaluated N20 EP kites stacked on top of each other, under tension, and noticed upwards of 5" of luff length discrepancy between batches of kites. Some kites were stitched from the factor, some weren't, they all were class legal N20 EP built spinnakers. Further, a sticker is a sticker, you can remove an EP sticker and place it on a Glaser sail for example. I don't think 99% of the populace would do such a thing, but in a very competitive race billed as taking place in single manufacturer one-design boat (which is what the N20 class was billed as when Nacra was wholly owned and operated in the U.S), certain individuals with highly competitive juices may have been swapping stickers on certain sails between days to gain a competitive edge. This sort of nonsense was mostly eliminated in the F18 class by use of a published measurement template.


Amen to point #1...

Regarding the NACRA 20 deal, thanks for clearing that up.... I was misinformed by a past Inter 20 sailor that I now feel had an ax to grind...


Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282828
06/06/16 06:04 PM
06/06/16 06:04 PM
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brucat Offline
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Does SCHRS adequately handle the "modern vs. primitive" sail design problem (given the example above with two sails built differently, but with the same dimensions)?

Mike

Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: abbman] #282829
06/07/16 06:09 AM
06/07/16 06:09 AM
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samc99us Offline
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Mike,

Here is the SCHRS measurement formula: http://www.schrs.com/measurements.php#mainsail

Two sails built differently but with the same dimensions: if this is the case, their are still usually small differences in dimension, and if not, my opinion is the newer sail will perform better than the old sail, simply because it is newer. The cut and material impact this some, but as an example, different F18 sail (totally different lofts, totally different materials) are built to the same dimension, and yes there have been some advancements over the years but its always the best sailors at the top of the fleet.


Scorpion F18
Re: Nacra Class Rules [Re: samc99us] #282831
06/07/16 09:05 AM
06/07/16 09:05 AM
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Ventucky Red Offline
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From what I understand, on a upwind/downwind course a bi-radial main and a tri radial jib will have an advantage over cross cut sail.


Last edited by Ventucky Red; 06/07/16 09:05 AM.
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