Announcements
New Discussions
Question about tiller extension uv joint
by JeffS. 12/09/19 12:35 AM
2020, The Year of The Cat
by cyberspeed. 11/26/19 09:47 PM
F16 Effect Crew Weight Solo and 2 Up
by 11devil11. 11/21/19 07:30 AM
Supercat 17s closest competitor?
by Will_R. 11/19/19 11:01 AM
New England 100 2019: 30th Anniversary!!!
by Timbo. 11/18/19 02:45 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 15 of 41 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 40 41
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Mark Schneider] #284520
12/26/16 09:28 AM
12/26/16 09:28 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
V
Ventucky Red Offline
veteran
Ventucky Red  Offline
veteran
V

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
USER FEES... are my states republican way of cutting taxes but maintaining the revenue. We invented the flush tax... to pay for waste treatment plants and then applied it to septic owners.... Lots of noise about that one.. but... all in all it worked so... the next admin was democratic and created the Rain tax to pay for the EPA consent decree to mange rain water runoff waste water into the bay. So, the next admin promised to kill the rain tax... and pay for the consent decree... though general revenue. So we come full circle... at the end of the day... you have to pay for things.... what you call it... is marketing.

So... charge anything for a photo id... that you require for voting.. its a poll tax. Now ... how you market it... well


Is there a breakdown of what those fees are used for... such as the State Patrol, etc.....

I thought in MD you could get an ID card for $15.00 that will last 8 years... has this changed?

Funny... went to the doctor the other day... they know me I know them, but now with the AHA they need a copy of my ID with each visit or they don't get reimbursed... seems you can't get through life without a photo ID these days


Last edited by Ventucky Red; 12/26/16 09:28 AM.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Mark Schneider] #284522
12/26/16 10:35 AM
12/26/16 10:35 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
USER FEES... are my states republican way of cutting taxes but maintaining the revenue. We invented the flush tax... to pay for waste treatment plants and then applied it to septic owners.... Lots of noise about that one.. but... all in all it worked so... the next admin was democratic and created the Rain tax to pay for the EPA consent decree to mange rain water runoff waste water into the bay. So, the next admin promised to kill the rain tax... and pay for the consent decree... though general revenue. So we come full circle... at the end of the day... you have to pay for things.... what you call it... is marketing.

So... charge anything for a photo id... that you require for voting.. its a poll tax. Now ... how you market it... well


It's not "known" as poll tax, it's SPUN as poll tax. As mentioned above, there are places where seniors can get them for free.

A driver's license is a privilege, not a right. It's happens to be a convenient form of photo ID. There are other forms.

As you noted, everything costs money, to print, administer, etc.

A really smart government would make the IDs free to protect the legitimacy of the vote, and pay for it out of general funds. Of course, that will never happen with our overly-partisan system that values fight and change over working together to make us stronger.

Mike

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Todd_Sails] #284546
12/27/16 06:35 AM
12/27/16 06:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 473
Panama City, Florida
Redtwin Offline
addict
Redtwin  Offline
addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 473
Panama City, Florida
Not to start a fight about voter fraud, but didn't one of the Democratic leaders up North (NY?) admit to bussing folks around from precinct to precinct and casting multiple votes? Maybe I have been a victim of false news???

EDIT: I don't know the credibility of the source but here is the story.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/10/18/project-veritas-election-videos/#

Last edited by Redtwin; 12/27/16 06:40 AM.

Rob V. Nacra 5.2 Panama City
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Todd_Sails] #284547
12/27/16 07:21 AM
12/27/16 07:21 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
H
Hullflyer1 Offline
enthusiast
Hullflyer1  Offline
enthusiast
H

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
Old saying
"No tickey No laundry"

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Hullflyer1] #284548
12/27/16 10:19 AM
12/27/16 10:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Jake,

Florida used those electronic only machines for one of the elections a bit ago (I think after the 2000 election debacle) but moved back to the electronic/paper system after the questions were raised about accountability.

With the paper trail, not only can we verify the # votes = # voters, but we can audit the machine itself (# votes for candidate 1 = # ballots for candidate 1).

I think there was a rumor that one precinct in Texas 2008 had a machine programmed wrong so that a vote for candidate 1 was actually checking the box for candidate 2.

And our paper ballots are issued with a privacy sleeve to be used by the voter until such time as they (themselves) insert it in the machine.

As to the issue of voter ID, I agree that some forms of ID cost money (and therefore can be seen as a sort of "poll tax"). But the list of photo/signature ID is rather large and includes some forms of ID that are free (photo/signature credit card is one that pops out in my mind). But the vast majority use Driver license / ID or Passport.

Those who don't have ID are given a provisional ballot to be evaluated by a separate "canvassing board" who establish the citizen's right to vote and count that ballot if those eligibility criteria are met.


What is really interesting, however, is the vast differences between states as to how they handle the election process.... Surely there must be some "best practices" list of things that is shared among states. But since voting is left under the pervue of state gub'ment I guess it's all up to elected representatives...


Jay

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: brucat] #284552
12/27/16 07:34 PM
12/27/16 07:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mike... a really smart government.... Say WHAT!

"Starting with John F. Kennedy’s victory over Richard Nixon in 1960, Delia Anderson had voted in 14 straight presidential elections.

She had cast her ballot at the same polling place for years, never with a glitch. This year, however, a volunteer driving her to the polls mentioned that she would be asked to show a state-approved photo ID.
ADVERTISING

“Don’t these poll people already know who I am?” replied Anderson, who is 77, black and uses a wheelchair, as she frantically sifted through her purse for anything to prove her identity.

It was a lost cause. She had planned to vote for Hillary Clinton. Instead, for the first time in 56 years, she did not cast a ballot.

“Lord, have mercy,” she said. “What happened to voting?”"
In Wisconson...

from la times

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-minority-voter-suppression-2016-story.html

OH... and even a charge of 15 dollars for the right to vote... is aka a poll tax. Semantics!

So far... i believe they have ID 1 case of voter fraud in the last election....


crac.sailregattas.com
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: brucat] #284566
12/28/16 09:40 AM
12/28/16 09:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by brucat


It's not "known" as poll tax, it's SPUN as poll tax. As mentioned above, there are places where seniors can get them for free.
...
Mike


But not All places will provide an ID for free - relatively few are. If you have to pay money for an ID, that you wouldn't need otherwise, and you need that ID in order to place a vote - It doesn't take much spin to consider that a poll tax.

That said, most of us need that ID for other things (driving a car) and it comes in handy for a lot of other things. With that being the case, most of us see very little issue or hassle with having to provide one to vote. However, the Constitution does not intend for only "most of us" to be able to vote.


Jake Kohl
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Jake] #284567
12/28/16 10:09 AM
12/28/16 10:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
For Florida at least:

Approved forms of picture identification are:

Florida driver's license

Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles

United States passport

debit or credit card

military identification

student identification

retirement center identification

neighborhood association identification

public assistance identification

veteran health identification card issued by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs

license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm issued pursuant to s. 790.06

an employee identification card issued by any branch, department, agency, or entity of the Federal Government, the state, a county, or a municipality (Section 101.043, F.S.)


Some of these forms of ID do not require money, only the time/effort to obtain it. Those not willing to spend that time/effort probably won't want to spend time voting either?


Jay

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Todd_Sails] #284571
12/28/16 11:47 AM
12/28/16 11:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
H
Hullflyer1 Offline
enthusiast
Hullflyer1  Offline
enthusiast
H

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
Delia Anderson at 77 years of age more than likely is getting social security benefits as well as medicare
How can she cash the checks or open a bank account with out proper ID

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: waterbug_wpb] #284572
12/28/16 11:50 AM
12/28/16 11:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
For Florida at least:
Approved forms of picture identification are:

Florida driver's license
Costs $48, requires passing several tests (eye exam, written, driving)

Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
Costs $25, requires proof of identity, a SSN and proof of FL residency

United States passport
Costs $110, requires proof of citizenship, valid ID, photos.

debit or credit card
Costs $0 (might have monthly charges), requires a bank account (which requires ID, etc.)

military identification
Requires being in the military

student identification
Requires being a student (paying tuition)

retirement center identification
Requires being in a retirement center ($$)

neighborhood association identification
Requires owning a home ($$$$$$)

public assistance identification
Requires being on public assistance, which requires completing a lengthy form and a SSN

veteran health identification card issued by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs
Requires having been in the military

license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm issued pursuant to s. 790.06
$112 fee, background check

an employee identification card issued by any branch, department, agency, or entity of the Federal Government, the state, a county, or a municipality (Section 101.043, F.S.)
Requires being a federal employee

Some of these forms of ID do not require money, only the time/effort to obtain it. Those not willing to spend that time/effort probably won't want to spend time voting either?


I'm a homeless person with no bank account who makes my "living" standing on a street corner with a "Help Me" sign and I spend my nights in a shelter. I'm too proud to be on public assistance - or maybe my reading skills aren't good enough to read the form. I watch the news on television at the shelter and I want to vote in the election. The State of Florida is preventing me from voting.

Your argument is invalid.

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: waterbug_wpb] #284581
12/28/16 06:56 PM
12/28/16 06:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Given that there haven't been any serious documented cases where a lack of ID requirement was leveraged to create forged votes on any significant scale, why are IDs a big deal?...unless you want to keep a particular group from voting...which isn't very constitutional. You're much more likely to die in a car crash that experience a fraudulent vote but I don't hear you guys screaming for a reduction in speed limits or 5 point harnesses ;-).

It's not like you can just walk up to any precinct to vote. You still have to be a registered voter in THAT precinct and that registration only gets to vote once.


Jake Kohl
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Hullflyer1] #284582
12/28/16 07:00 PM
12/28/16 07:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Quote
with out proper ID


This is just typical of the BS spin... How can XXX not have ID in this country blah blah blah....
the ISSUE is PHOTO ID for VOTING... not proper ID for voting. The little old lady had tons of ID... some probably government issued... just not PHOTO ID...

There is NO PROBLEM with individual Voter fraud by false ID photo or otherwise.
There are NO revolving door polling places where you cast votes as mr jones... mr smith and mr brown. The republicans cannot produce any data... much less compelling data that demonstrates a problem.

PHOTO ID requirements are a way to raise a barrier to voting that impact some demographics more then others. I don't know why they just don't cut the polling booths by half in the areas that don't support the powers in charge. Much more effective. "HEY... you could have voted if you waited in line for 6 hours... Your choice!" IMO, Both are barriers that are un American.

OH..BTW
We don't have "Papers" in this country. You don't have to walk around with specific government ID AT ALL...

I don't know of any law that requires you to carry ID ... AT ALL
Now... if you want to have that debate... Let' have at it. (HINT... its a real issue for all those wanting actual immigration caps and enforcement AND it will redefine American Values.

Last edited by Mark Schneider; 12/28/16 07:01 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Todd_Sails] #284584
12/29/16 05:36 AM
12/29/16 05:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
H
Hullflyer1 Offline
enthusiast
Hullflyer1  Offline
enthusiast
H

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 304
Hmm Too proud to go on public assistance but not too proud to beg

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Hullflyer1] #284586
12/29/16 06:03 AM
12/29/16 06:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Originally Posted by Hullflyer1
Hmm Too proud to go on public assistance but not too proud to beg


That's not what we're talking about here. That was an example and I think you missed the point smile


Jake Kohl
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Mark Schneider] #284587
12/29/16 09:45 AM
12/29/16 09:45 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
V
Ventucky Red Offline
veteran
Ventucky Red  Offline
veteran
V

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
Originally Posted by Mark Schneider
Quote
with out proper ID


This is just typical of the BS spin... How can XXX not have ID in this country blah blah blah....
the ISSUE is PHOTO ID for VOTING... not proper ID for voting. The little old lady had tons of ID... some probably government issued... just not PHOTO ID...


Again Mark, this is not BS spin.... for her to apply and receive SS benefits she needed a photo ID, for her to cash her SS check, she'll need a photo ID, for her to apply and received Medicaid benefits she needed a photo ID, the list goes on...

Leave you photo ID at home and see how far you can get without it..

Oh! In CA if you're on public assistance, the card is free.... pretty sure this is the same for most states

Quote
OH..BTW
We don't have "Papers" in this country. You don't have to walk around with specific government ID AT ALL...


Your right, this is not a federal law, but it is a state law in many states that are part of the Interstate Motor Vehicle Compact... which Maryland and Virginia are part of...

Last edited by Ventucky Red; 12/29/16 09:53 AM.
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Ventucky Red] #284589
12/29/16 12:27 PM
12/29/16 12:27 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
The government issued ID problem is much bigger than many of you believe. 3.2 million Americans do not possess a government-issued picture ID according to a 2012 study co-authored by Norden.


from http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/146006217/why-new-photo-id-laws-mean-some-wont-vote
Quote
Who Are They?

By all estimates, those least likely to have a government-issued photo ID fall into one of four categories: the elderly, minorities, the poor and young adults aged 18 to 24. The Brennan Center estimates that 18 percent of all seniors and 25 percent of African-Americans don't have picture IDs.



You marry these facts with a lack of actual fraud that these new rules are prophesied to protect us against and it's pretty easy to assume there is an ulterior motive...or at least a quietly agreeable benefit to those that are putting these rules in place.


Jake Kohl
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: Todd_Sails] #284593
12/29/16 03:10 PM
12/29/16 03:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Jake highlights facts.. YOU (Or me) don't get to say how you choose to live in this country. So... the little old lady has not needed a photo ID to live her life in this country for 70 plus years.. You don't get to judge that reality and deny them a constitutional right. ...

Matt's principled street beggar gets to choose their existence... and you also don't get to judge that as up or down and deny them constitutional rights either.

We are talking about VOTING.... not functioning in American society according to a standard that YOU or your political party wants to impose.

So... we eventually got the constitutional right to vote mostly sorted out. Blacks, can now vote... Woman can now vote.... you don't have to own property to vote..

All constitutional rights are balancing acts and the specific details get decided by the Supremes.

On the one hand, you have a legitimate concern that all votes are cast according to the constitution.... and on the other hand.... what is an undue burden on individuals voting to ensure that result.

as Jake points out... some populations don't have photo Id. I point out that PROOF of voter ID voting fraud is trivial and almost non existent. Moreover, the difference a photo ID would make on the trivial numbers documented are vanishingly small and the impact of fraud of this type hardly decisive in normal political election. (Counting and arithmetic errors in one county swamp the literally handful of documented voter fraud cases nationwide)

So... What is your argument that PHOTO ID voting requirements is a BALANCED response to the legitimate concern that elections are representative, fair and accurate. Don't forget our constitution takes into account the rights of the individual and stops majorities from stomping on individuals. ... So... balance away...


Last edited by Mark Schneider; 12/29/16 03:14 PM.

crac.sailregattas.com
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: mbounds] #284594
12/29/16 04:49 PM
12/29/16 04:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
catman Offline
Pooh-Bah
catman  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus...
Originally Posted by mbounds
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
For Florida at least:
Approved forms of picture identification are:

Florida driver's license
Costs $48, requires passing several tests (eye exam, written, driving)

Florida identification card issued by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles
Costs $25, requires proof of identity, a SSN and proof of FL residency

United States passport
Costs $110, requires proof of citizenship, valid ID, photos.

debit or credit card
Costs $0 (might have monthly charges), requires a bank account (which requires ID, etc.)

military identification
Requires being in the military

student identification
Requires being a student (paying tuition)

retirement center identification
Requires being in a retirement center ($$)

neighborhood association identification
Requires owning a home ($$$$$$)

public assistance identification
Requires being on public assistance, which requires completing a lengthy form and a SSN

veteran health identification card issued by the United States Department of Veterans Affairs
Requires having been in the military

license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm issued pursuant to s. 790.06
$112 fee, background check

an employee identification card issued by any branch, department, agency, or entity of the Federal Government, the state, a county, or a municipality (Section 101.043, F.S.)
Requires being a federal employee

Some of these forms of ID do not require money, only the time/effort to obtain it. Those not willing to spend that time/effort probably won't want to spend time voting either?


I'm a homeless person with no bank account who makes my "living" standing on a street corner with a "Help Me" sign and I spend my nights in a shelter. I'm too proud to be on public assistance - or maybe my reading skills aren't good enough to read the form. I watch the news on television at the shelter and I want to vote in the election. The State of Florida is preventing me from voting.

Your argument is invalid.



You and your fantasy scenario's.

This state has a law where you have to ID yourself on demand.

We have got to this point because people lie and cheat.

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane?

Because of one guy.

If you are not responsible enough to get an ID then maybe you should not vote.

And watching the news at a shelter, LOL. What ABC, CBS, NBC, please.

You don't like our state laws, stay the hell out.


Have Fun
Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: catman] #284597
12/29/16 05:45 PM
12/29/16 05:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by catman

You and your fantasy scenario's. Sorry, but the use of an apostrophe here is inappropriate. Are you educated enough to vote?

This state has a law where you have to ID yourself on demand.
Show us your papers!
[Linked Image]
Actually, it's not a general law - in Florida, the police must have a reasonable suspicion that you're involved in criminal activity (a Terry stop).

We have got to this point because people lie and cheat. No, we got here because people are convinced that the elderly, the poor, "coloreds" and the under educated are somehow not fit to vote. That they'll lie and cheat to somehow "rig" an election.

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane? Don't know about you, but I don't have to. It's called TSA PreCheck.

Because of one guy. Thanks Richard Reid! Although I think Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab had more style. Shouldn't we all be commando on planes now? I'm confused.

If you are not responsible enough to get an ID then maybe you should not vote.
And if I said if you aren't responsible enough to buy a gun, then maybe you should not have one, you'd have spittle flying out screaming "Hurrrr! 2nd Amendment! This is 'Merica!" Sorry, you don't get to pick and choose which parts of the Constitution you like.

And watching the news at a shelter, LOL. What ABC, CBS, NBC, please.PBS NewsHour laugh I'm an educated beggar.

You don't like our state laws, stay the hell out. Sorry, you don't get to make that call, either. I'm a US Citizen. Last time I checked there was no such thing as a "Florida Citizen."

Re: The media IS the Democraptic party! [Re: mbounds] #284611
12/30/16 09:29 AM
12/30/16 09:29 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
V
Ventucky Red Offline
veteran
Ventucky Red  Offline
veteran
V

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
Originally Posted by mbounds

Why do we take our shoes off to get on a plane? Don't know about you, but I don't have to. It's called TSA PreCheck.


Remind me again on how much that cost you and the verification process you were subjected to for this privilege?







Page 15 of 41 1 2 13 14 15 16 17 40 41

Search

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 476 guests, and 473 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Nickv, jgsanchez, Tressa, EvoOwner, bigbird
7984 Registered Users
Top Posters(30 Days)
Dermot 2
Timbo 2
Will_R 1
JeffS 1
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics22,371
Posts266,960
Members7,984
Most Online1,650
Sep 10th, 2019
--Advertisement--
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1