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Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #284923
01/11/17 09:05 PM
01/11/17 09:05 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Kingston SE South Australia
Bump


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #284946
01/12/17 05:18 AM
01/12/17 05:18 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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F18's have really taken off in SA doubled the fleet size in a year


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #284952
01/12/17 07:24 AM
01/12/17 07:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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Any thoughts on why? Probably a pretty perfect boat for venues with breeze...


Scorpion F18
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: brucat] #284953
01/12/17 08:12 AM
01/12/17 08:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by brucat
Many, many years of RC experience. That may have been exaggerated by a few knots, but it's not that far off. And, I was trying to be funny (note the "lol").

Mike


Fail, try harder.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #284954
01/12/17 08:38 AM
01/12/17 08:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
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I'm selling my boat for a similar reason as Sam, getting ready for Worlds 2018. I'm partnering with another skipper and I will be co-owner. Any offer will be heard for my boat.

A lot of F18's on the market isn't a bad thing, a buyers market is good for the class. The sky isn't falling and the class remains strong, I expect a build up to Worlds 2018 then a dip after. Yes we can do better with our PR and the executive committee is creating a marketing plan with a budget that is sustainable.

Yes the Hobie 16 is STILL the king of one-design multihull racing. If you poo poo the class then shame on you! If you poo poo the F18 fleet... get in the queue with the other haters, I'm looking squarely at you Mike. It's a point of pride for me when someone says the F18 is the Hobie 16 of the spin fleet. Any class should covet the success of the Hobie 16 fleet.


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: David Ingram] #284959
01/12/17 10:38 AM
01/12/17 10:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Naples, FL
While not a member of the F18 class, I think it's great that folks like Ding and Sam are turning over boats so that others may enter the fleet without having to cough up dough for a new platform.

Obviously the build quality on most boats these days allows for a long life, and the class rules do their best to keep the playing field somewhat level (this is not a true development class if I recall).

So a buyer's market in my opinion would indeed be an asset for class growth.

And I don't think anyone would argue that the H16 is the be-all/end-all of multihull sailing, but you can't argue with the fleet size if that's how you're judging the success of a class..


Jay

Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #284962
01/12/17 11:37 AM
01/12/17 11:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Get your facts straight, Ding. I'm not a hater of F18s at all, or any other cat class for that matter.

It was a joke, based in part on feedback and direct observation at regattas. I will accept that you didn't find it humorous, but that doesn't change my intent.

Also, as is well-known, I don't like to sail in over 20 knots anymore, either. Except on a Wave.

Mike

Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #284964
01/12/17 11:48 AM
01/12/17 11:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Northfield Mn
Mike, if you haven't noticed over the years, Dave's online persona is one of constant butthurt. Still one of my favorite people to catch up with in person when the opportunity arises though.


I'm boatless.
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Karl_Brogger] #285002
01/13/17 08:46 AM
01/13/17 08:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Naples, FL
I can't read your (Karl the 2nd) or Ding's posts at work anymore. I laugh too loud and the boss probably thinks I'm watching porn or something...


Jay

Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: waterbug_wpb] #285062
01/14/17 01:32 PM
01/14/17 01:32 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I can't read your (Karl the 2nd) or Ding's posts at work anymore. I laugh too loud and the boss probably thinks I'm watching porn or something...


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: waterbug_wpb] #285111
01/15/17 05:44 AM
01/15/17 05:44 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,383
Kingston SE South Australia
JeffS Offline
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JeffS  Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
I can't read your (Karl the 2nd) or Ding's posts at work anymore. I laugh too loud and the boss probably thinks I'm watching porn or something...


Jeff Southall
Current boats
Nacra 5.8 1703 Animal Scanning Services
Nacra 5.8 1667 Ram Raider
Nacra 18 Square
Arrow 1576
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: samc99us] #285155
01/16/17 06:12 PM
01/16/17 06:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 381
SE MI / NE IN
rehmbo Offline
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SE MI / NE IN
Originally Posted by samc99us
...Do you have any tips for hooking new sailors to the class and keeping them engaged? I've heard comments that "the F18 class is too competitive", which refers a bit to the East Coast fleet, but I think is a bit of a misnomer as even the very best sailors in the class are extremely helpful and friendly!


Well, I don't know of any magic formulas, but at CRAM we are trying to build an awareness that the B-Fleet is the future of the A-Fleet. B-fleet should be the foundation, not the other way around.

Our individual fleets aren't big enough to justify A and B, so all the miscellaneous fleets (including Portsmouth, H16, etc.) serve the feeder role. We do our best to cater to them, make them feel completely welcome, and most importantly, be sure they have a blast. Once they've been there a year or two, we ask them to get involved and take some ownership of their future. Small stuff at first of course...

At CSYC, a few years ago one of the forward thinking members purchased an inexpensive Tiger and donated it to the club to be sailed as a club boat. That boat helped bring me from a reckless TheMightyHobie18 hack to a marginally competent F18 sailor (a leap that's bigger than it sounds). I've since purchased my C2 and am continuing my journey in the F18 fleet. Now a few others including our youth sailors are enjoying the Tiger. Unfortunately there's still a big jump from the 420's and Wave to the Tiger they sail normally, so that's another challenge to solve in the future.

Also, as mentioned before, we try to schedule outings where the newer guys/gals get to spend time skippering for the more experienced guys and get them up the learning curve more quickly. Building confidence seems to be really beneficial.

Finally, we've been lucky to have a few really enthusiastic cheerleader types that seem to keep the ball rolling no matter what. They probably have as much to do with the fun and growth as anything. smile

Last edited by rehmbo; 01/16/17 06:15 PM.

Jeff R

H18, C2 USA1193
cramsailing.com
crescentsail.com
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #285171
01/17/17 08:33 AM
01/17/17 08:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
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samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Solomon's Island, MD
Jeff,

All great strategies for success. There is quite a leap from the 420/Laser world to the high performance world, one that is made considerably easier by pairing an experienced sailor with a newbie. We do a fair bit of that locally and it seems to help, though in gnarly conditions it can still go pear shaped quickly with the new guy on the tiller!

All comes down to time on the water...


Scorpion F18
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: samc99us] #285173
01/17/17 12:21 PM
01/17/17 12:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Originally Posted by samc99us
I've heard comments that "the F18 class is too competitive", which refers a bit to the East Coast fleet, but I think is a bit of a misnomer as even the very best sailors in the class are extremely helpful and friendly!


I'd be curious as to why someone feels a class is "too competitive". Did they figure they'd jump right in and start winning regattas? That's a bit of a stretch unless you're world-class already.

No, sorry, everyone does not think you are special, and not everyone gets a trophy. Life just isn't fair sometimes I guess.

Perhaps those "too competitive" folks aren't the type to engage in any sort of conversation with those at the pointy end of the fleet. Or, only speak to them when they're obscenely busy or pre-occupied with stuff like practice, boat prep, etc..

While it is nice that the fast part of the fleet actively engage the noobs and slower folk, it's not a requirement... I've never been ignored when I had a question, and never refused to help those (very few) folks with less ability.

Why do I show up? Supporting the class. Getting boats on the line. Getting new people on the water (crew).

My expectations are modest: I don't train regularly, I don't drop truckloads of money into the boat, and I don't race every weekend. So I shouldn't expect to win over those that do.

I keep it civil (nay, fun) on the boat for the crew and participate in cruising / day-sail events as well for those who might not want to jump right in to racing (lack of experience, etc). Once they see sailing isn't rocket science, maybe they'll eventually buy the boat from me smile


Jay

Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #285176
01/17/17 01:15 PM
01/17/17 01:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
S
samc99us Offline
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samc99us  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 932
Solomon's Island, MD
I think that perception is related to the "dropping truckloads of money into the boat and racing every weekend" statement. The 1st-3rd place team at this years Nationals won on platforms that were several years old, 2nd place team sailing on a set of upwind sails of the same vintage. Yeah, most boats in the top 10 are going to be less than 4 years old and running new sails at a major event like Nationals, but the same can be said in most other classes of sailboat racing


Scorpion F18
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: waterbug_wpb] #285177
01/17/17 01:49 PM
01/17/17 01:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
Carpal Tunnel
David Ingram  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
Originally Posted by samc99us
I've heard comments that "the F18 class is too competitive", which refers a bit to the East Coast fleet, but I think is a bit of a misnomer as even the very best sailors in the class are extremely helpful and friendly!


The "the F18 class is too competitive" thing could come from the fleets enforcement of the rules on and off the water, some are put off by it and some embrace it. Having been the a$$hole on the beach that harasses it's membership about membership dues and and boat certs for the last 9 years I can tell you for a fact nobody thinks you're getting it right. There are always complaints about being to nit picky and too lax and sometimes it's at the same time from the same skipper which is always a pleasurable conversation. My point... not all complaints need to be pursued, and there isn't a single fleet that fits everyone persons wants and needs but we do have diverse group of fleets which I think could satisfy the vast majority of those interested in multihull racing without having to overhaul our fleets.


The most straight forward way to keep people coming back is to constantly reach out to old and new teams, let them know when an event is coming up and create a buzz. Every successful fleet always seems to have at least one or two people that everyone knows and hear from about upcoming regattas. Be one of those people and your fleet will succeed. As with anything you get out of it what you put into it.



David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #285178
01/17/17 02:10 PM
01/17/17 02:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
All great points, guys.

Clinics put on by local experts (fastest guys in the local fleet) are also huge. You can't have too many of these. You can dedicate a weekend (one day clinic, second day is fun racing), or break it down into bite-sized pieces, spread over regatta weekends.

The fast guys know they'll only get faster for nationals if they're pushed all season long locally.

Newbies will be eternally grateful.

Mid-packers will enjoy anything that gets them on the water to improve their fine-tuning.

Everybody wins...

Mike

Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: brucat] #285181
01/17/17 03:00 PM
01/17/17 03:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
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Naples, FL
so easy, and yet.....

but h8ters will h8


Jay

Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: Ventucky Red] #285182
01/17/17 03:27 PM
01/17/17 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
...And yet so complex... (Crazy bonus points if you know that reference.)

Ignore the haters, focus on what's working for you. If you can generate buzz, and keep the social aspect fun, you'll win every time.

Fleets that are having fun and taking care of all levels of their sailors don't disappear overnight.

Mike

Re: Lots of F18s' For Sale [Re: brucat] #285230
01/19/17 02:06 PM
01/19/17 02:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
Carpal Tunnel
waterbug_wpb  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
Was it Gulfport YC that stipulated that in order to keep your mast-up storage spot (at a screaming deal) you had to get out and sail in one of their regattas (race or cruise) at least 2x per year or something?

I thought that was genious for several reasons:
- moves dead boats
- lawn maintenance around those boats that rarely move
- keeps people (owners, non-owners) somewhat in contact and involved
- creates buzz (razzing the owners who don't sail, etc)
- keeps the club membership from slipping into a social club with no active sailing.


Jay

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