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Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: inter17number217] #286506
03/13/17 08:50 AM
03/13/17 08:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,249
Columbia South Carolina, USA
dave mosley Offline
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dave mosley  Offline
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Columbia South Carolina, USA
Dang, read this after I posted my regatta announcement, flame suit donned


The men were amazed, and said, "What kind of a man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey Him?" Matthew 8:27





-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: inter17number217] #286508
03/13/17 10:22 AM
03/13/17 10:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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Several of you are echoing what I eluded to earlier: the only way this stops is if it isn't tolerated by the general group. Whiners need to be stopped in their tracks. Sadly, what tends to happen is that people who weren't even at the regatta chime in, and the whiners get rewarded.

No one is perfect, we've all had bad things happen, and those of us who care always think about those things that went poorly and try to ensure those mistakes aren't repeated. Some of us file for redress on behalf of sailors that we beleive were affected.

What some sailors tend to forget is that they aren't perfect either, otherwise they'd be winning every regatta with a 1 for a throwout.

Mike

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: waterbug_wpb] #286509
03/13/17 11:11 AM
03/13/17 11:11 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403
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Ventucky Red Offline
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Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb
Part of the issue may also be related to the MANY who actually have a good time at the regatta and DON'T POST HOW GREAT IT WAS. If that were the case, perhaps the whiner would be lost in the noise.

I am guilty of this, as you can see by the wealth of FB posts I have (NOT)

And everyone gets a trophy these days, right?

Not knowing the specific event (and compliant) that prompted this thread, I can only speculate that someone didn't get the red-carpet treatment? Or they had unusual needs/requests (like gluten-free, organic, free-range tomato sandwiches) that couldn't possibly be met by a volunteer-based organization?

Those free-range tomatoes are hard to catch, BTW


In this one particular event I know everyone else had a great time and had many thanks afterwards... But as they say, there is always a complete fornicating anal orifice in every group

One of our participants acutely "verbed" the person name for future reference meaning "don't be an fornicating wad with negative publicity and your whinny wants."

Last edited by Ventucky Red; 03/13/17 11:13 AM.
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: dave mosley] #286510
03/13/17 05:41 PM
03/13/17 05:41 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I still don't yet know what we're talking about - what is "regatta shaming"?


Jake Kohl
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: David Ingram] #286514
03/13/17 09:06 PM
03/13/17 09:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Who gives a kiss? If you've made it far enough in life that you're organizing a regatta, why would you listen to what some whiny bitch has to say about it? If you don't view the criticism as constructive, pull your head out of your butt, and ignore it. If your wittle feewings hurt, then harden the kiss up.


Well Karl, it's like this. Regatta organizers (the good ones) are often selfless personalities, these people often put other peoples priorities ahead of their own. It's also rare that a regatta organizer will shame the complainers and more often than not they will listen to their feedback and if it's reasonable they will roll into the next event and happily move on with their lives. It's only when assholes like me kick assholes like you in the nuts for saying something stupid in public and that's when things get messy. If we let the adults do their thing I'm confident everything would be quite civil but that's not the world we live in and I enjoy kicking you in the nuts.



After all that, all I'm left with is the question; "can Dave lift his leg that high?"

That's normal, right?


I'm boatless.
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: David Ingram] #286519
03/14/17 09:47 AM
03/14/17 09:47 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by David Ingram
and I enjoy kicking you in the nuts.


who doesn't ?

[Linked Image]


Jay

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: inter17number217] #286520
03/14/17 09:53 AM
03/14/17 09:53 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
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Jake,
I think it was about a face book thread around the last big multiclass Fla regatta. Some very upset sailors generated a very very upset response from the OA, Jill N, who defended her PRO and regatta team.

Just because you pay an entry fee.... Does not mean that you are buying a service from a business.

If you are visiting a Yacht Club.... the operative words are VISIT.... and GUEST..... That means you behave yourself...respect the property, mind your dogs and kids and SAY THANK YOU! You pay for THEIR BEER... cause it's not your liquor license and leave that cooler at home. They are volunteers at the club... not employees!

If its a public beach... SAME RULES. It's all volunteers, there are NEVER ENOUGH volunteers and so they are over committed and they are responsible to the town.

If the host doesn't work for you... Three choices, Accept the event for what it was and will be and say THANK YOU... Two, Offer to communicate about the issues as you see them and say THANK YOU!, ..... Or Three ....say THANK YOU very much... have a nice life and plan a different schedule next year.
SAY THANK YOU!

my personal POV...
the entire event has to work at creating reasonable expectations about sailboat racing and then delivering on what you promise for the new racer and their family. Sailors does not mean Racers... Deliver what you promise and they will come back but only if they enjoy competing... The number one goal is to convert sailors into racers if you are involved in regattas.

Keep in mind... Most sailors are not racers.... LOTS of Sailors want nothing to do with competing... They do their family thing and life is fine.. As the red headed step child of sailing and clubs.... perhaps we should find a way to promote things like catamaran beach parties and encourage PR of clubs that don't go racing..

I personally don't know of anyone who organizes these kinds of events. One thing the racing community could do would be BOLO these things and publish them on catSAILOR.



crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: Mark Schneider] #286522
03/14/17 11:01 AM
03/14/17 11:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
I agree with your comments about adjusting your expectations when heading to a regatta. None of us are Olympic class competitors, and shouldn't expect the world to fall to its knees if we show up. For Pete's sake it's a hobby/sport for most of us...

Helping the PRO with the numerous non-fun jobs, supporting the venue (be it a club, park, etc) and other sailors just makes good economic sense. You will have fun and be invited back to the host location.

Our paper club actually bought several kegs (at cost) from the host yacht club and gave that beer away to all present (participants and club members who happened to be there and wanted to join in.) We cleaned up after ourselves and tried to leave the place in better shape than we found it.

Combining that good stewardship with the host club's knowledge that our regatta was a (small) fundraiser for a local charity AND that some of the proceeds would be passed on to their club's youth sailing program, the host club is happy to have us back next year.

The club figures that a well organized regatta:
- brings activity to the club
- brings potential new members
- adds some funds to their coffers
- turns over their beer inventory to make their supplier happy
- turns the community spotlight on the club (because of the fundraiser)

So as long as you don't treat the place like Caddyshack's caddie day at the pool, and don't turn your nose up at the blue-blazers I think you'd be happy with the result. We even got a club member to consider being a spectator boat (and take a few guests) next year.


Jay

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: waterbug_wpb] #286524
03/14/17 11:13 AM
03/14/17 11:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 118
fl
M
Mn3Again Offline
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Mn3Again  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 118
fl
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb

So as long as you don't treat the place like Caddyshack's caddie day...

[Linked Image]


Mn3
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: inter17number217] #286525
03/14/17 11:34 AM
03/14/17 11:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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As far as general behavior, as much as our reputation as partiers may say otherwise, catsailors aren't the only ones, and probably aren't even the worst offenders. For the most part, we police ourselves.

I've been at a giant regatta (all monos except for a small group of big cats and tris), where some folks were actually arrested for breaking into the yacht club to get to the alcohol after everyone had gone home after the party.

Naturally, that evolved into a Rule 69 hearing, and a few boats were not on the line the following morning (I think some folks were still in jail, so the 69 hearing was more of a formality). That takes a special kind of stupid...

Back on topic of OA / RC shaming... One of my mentors taught me long ago (after a dismal performance to start a regatta) to NEVER respond to those kinds of posts. You can never win, and if you ignore it, eventually it will flame out. Not to say you "ignore" the root causes and fixes going forward, just don't fuel the fire online.

I struggle with this, because I want people to know that I'm looking out for them. Even if it's just to reiterate that sometimes, bad things happen, and the fix is a judgement call between two bad choices (sometimes it's as bad as abandon or not).

Mike

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: brucat] #286526
03/14/17 12:46 PM
03/14/17 12:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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I would be interested to hear why someone would post such negative opinions of an event.

Was this after being ignored when seeking a private conversation with the parties?


Jay

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: inter17number217] #286533
03/15/17 08:57 AM
03/15/17 08:57 AM
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brucat Offline
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Good point. Unfortunatley, not every event lends itself to that; often times, PROs get hung up in scoring, or in protest/redress hearings (whether as a party or fill-in judge). Sometimes by the time we're free, awards are done, food is gone, the kegs are dry and the sailors have gone home to start twittering themselves.

Mike


Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: Karl_Brogger] #286543
03/17/17 01:10 PM
03/17/17 01:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by Karl_Brogger
Magic bullet for that.

Explain that joe sailor over there flapping his c�ck holster is indeed an assh�le, and that those working the event should make his as uninviting as possible.

The volunteers understand, and get to enjoy mentally plotting their pedestrian revenge.


I've worked plenty of events and organised a few. Some people have magically ascended to grand master levels of douchedom, and that ain't never getting fixed.



Kick the assholes from the group, better for everyone else.

About a year ago I volunteered at a regatta for a mono hull group. I tried really hard to pay as much attention as possible and do my job as well as I could. I also went out of my way to take many photos, because its something we all enjoy to see atterwards but often do not get the opportunity. After a long day made longer due to some weather issues, several boats announced displeasure to me personally. Even going so far to say we had ruined the entire day/weekend for them. The complaints far outweighed any appreciation expressed by individuals. I got over it pretty fast, but coming on a year later I have been asked to help again. Screw that, I have a lot better things to do on a nice spring weekend. I am sure most people would say the same thing.

Last edited by bacho; 03/17/17 02:20 PM.
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: bacho] #286564
03/20/17 08:31 AM
03/20/17 08:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Originally Posted by bacho
. Even going so far to say we had ruined the entire day/weekend for them.


what on earth did you do to illicit that accusation?

Send them along the wrong course? Barge their boat? Move the mark right as that particular boat was approaching (and move it back)? Cause it to rain? Snuck onboard and opened their seacocks overnight? Failed to pick them up after their boat sank?

Jeeze... even those (well, maybe the last two) wouldn't "ruin the entire day/weekend" but that's just me.


Jay

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: waterbug_wpb] #286565
03/20/17 08:41 AM
03/20/17 08:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Greenville SC
Offset mark 90* off the A mark it was "way too high".

I have always tried to personally thank all volunteers at regattas when I have the opportunity, whether I am a happy camper or not. On a few occasions I have sent a private e-mail to the OA/PRO. Sometimes its thanking them for an exceptional regatta or its offering my feedback with some suggestions as nicely as I can.

I will admit that when I have to pay $150+ for a regatta I do tend to feel more like a customer than a guest.

Last edited by bacho; 03/20/17 08:51 AM.
Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: bacho] #286566
03/20/17 12:22 PM
03/20/17 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL
waterbug_wpb Offline
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Naples, FL
Originally Posted by bacho
Offset mark 90* off the A mark it was "way too high".

I have always tried to personally thank all volunteers at regattas when I have the opportunity, whether I am a happy camper or not. On a few occasions I have sent a private e-mail to the OA/PRO. Sometimes its thanking them for an exceptional regatta or its offering my feedback with some suggestions as nicely as I can.

I will admit that when I have to pay $150+ for a regatta I do tend to feel more like a customer than a guest.


wow... whining about an offset mark. Is there a rule it has to be 90 degrees from A?

And admit it... you're cheap. Where else will you get an enjoyable weekend on a boat for $150?

I mentally write it off as a fundraiser (for the host club)...to go for alcohol rehab counseling on the poor volunteers

Our paper club did the "regatta network" thing where you signed up for the whole season at a discount. I think it gave me 7 regattas. It only hurts to write the check once per year! And the club(s) have some idea of revenue/attendance.

I can't really say that by not attending a regatta it's 100% profit for the club, since their costs are the same whether they are one boat short or not... But maybe they save on a few extra bottles of rum

We pay top dollar for that little teensy string we use (to look cool), but feel an all-inclusive weekend of racing should be less than $75...



Jay

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: waterbug_wpb] #286570
03/20/17 01:05 PM
03/20/17 01:05 PM
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Posts: 3,969
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brucat Offline
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I wasted someone's weekend once. At least, that's what I was told by a parent after:

Consistently not hailing OCS numbers all weekend long.

His child was leading the regatta until being OCS in the last race (one of several identified in that start).

At the finish, I called the sail of the boats, followed by "OCS."

One of the other sailors said, "You were OCS!" to which this sailor said "I know."

The sailor knew the only way to win the regatta was to get the race chucked (several prior attempts by others resulted in redress denied for OCS calls). So, the sailor filed for redress under a "class rule" which didn't exist. During that hearing, the sailor again admitted (to the jury) knowing they were OCS. Redress for abandoning was denied.

After the (delayed) awards presentation, the parent laid into me about how unfair I was not to hail sail numbers of OCS boats at the start. I tried to explain that the opposite was true (only boats near me would hear them), and he basically had an argument for everything I said, culminating in "We just wasted an entire weekend!"

Fortunately, I didn't know who he was while I was talking to him (I had assumed he was a parent of one of the OCS kids whose OCS redress hearings were denied). I may have gone after him for sportsmanship after that.

Mike

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: brucat] #286572
03/20/17 01:52 PM
03/20/17 01:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
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Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Originally Posted by brucat
I may have gone after him for sportsmanship after that.

Under the old rules, there was no way you could have done that.

Even under the new rules, RC cannot protest a support person. Only a PC can bring them into a hearing - and it's more likely to be a 69 hearing than a rule 2 protest hearing. The most you could do is file a report with the PC - it's up to them to decide what to do (60.3(d)).

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: mbounds] #286574
03/20/17 03:30 PM
03/20/17 03:30 PM
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brucat Offline
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Agreed, I was referring to the conversation.

Mike

Re: Regatta Shaming [Re: waterbug_wpb] #286576
03/20/17 08:14 PM
03/20/17 08:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
bacho Offline
old hand
bacho  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 774
Greenville SC
Originally Posted by waterbug_wpb



And admit it... you're cheap. Where else will you get an enjoyable weekend on a boat for $150?

I mentally write it off as a fundraiser (for the host club)...to go for alcohol rehab counseling on the poor volunteers

Our paper club did the "regatta network" thing where you signed up for the whole season at a discount. I think it gave me 7 regattas. It only hurts to write the check once per year! And the club(s) have some idea of revenue/attendance.

I can't really say that by not attending a regatta it's 100% profit for the club, since their costs are the same whether they are one boat short or not... But maybe they save on a few extra bottles of rum

We pay top dollar for that little teensy string we use (to look cool), but feel an all-inclusive weekend of racing should be less than $75...




My club does $35 regattas. They do a heck of a job at it as well, so I am spoiled but I will also admit that I am pretty cheap.

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