The next Australian Taipan Championships are to be held at Lake Cootharaba, Queensland, starting 1st January 2005. The organising committee is seeking expressions of interest from F16 owners (taipan, mosquito, blade etc) in the holding of an unofficial F16 nationals prior to the Taipan nationals.

It is envisaged that the series would consist of 6 heats over 2 to 3 days using the standard championship windward and return course.

You can respond to the TCAA Secretary, Dave Elliott at [email]cccltd@tpg.com.au.[/email]



Phil Edwards
TCAA President

Phil,
That is a very good idea.
I've made some enquiries to see how this would fit in with the Mosquitos.
It seems the Mossies will be in South Australia for their Nationals.

Given the concentration of Mossie F16 sailors is down south an alternate suggestion could be to hold a Qld F16 State Titles. In the tradition of the NSW and soon to be run Victorian States the QLD States would take competitors from other states and it would not have to be won by a Queenslander. (Personally I think if won by someone from another state it should be defended by them on Qld waters). It could make for a very interesting event.

We could possibly plan a Nationals that everyone could attend the following year or during 2005.

Regards,
Phill

Hi Phil and Dave

First let me say, I'm very interested in being apart of the inaugural Australian F16 Nationals.

Let me also say that is encouraging to see the Taipans talking F16 out in the open again.

Although I'm not sure tacking a few days onto the Taipan Nationals is going about it the right way.

Firstly I notice the word unoffical. There is no reason why they need to be unoffical. Like any other Championship, due procedure should be followed. Liaising with Australia's F16 representive, Phill Brander could bring togeather an OFFICIAL titles. I think I would be much more inclined to attend if they were indeed the Offical Championships.

Secondly, the other classes need to be consulted. The Mosquitos also hold their Nationals in January, and I believe they are in South Australia next year. Logistcally difficult, if not impossible. As for my Blade, input is the best I can achieve. And by the way, bring on the Alpha Omega.

Thirdly, having holidayed in the Noosa area twice at that time of year, I believe the logistics of trying to arrange extra accomadation at that time of year, to say the least would be difficult.


My ideas on a F16 format are:
Hold State and Nationals at existing regattas to start off with. Just like the F18s did at Forster. I would also like to see some of the struggling clubs get the nod over the more fancied clubs.

As for more regular meetings of the classes, well that's another story.
Each class has to be comfortable with the direction Formula racing is taking them.
I notice that the Mosquitos seem quite happy with the way things are happening with them.

I don't think formula racing should be looked on as a wedge to divide existing classes, rather it should looked on as another level to aspire to.

At the moment it looks like the classes are standing in a circle, eye balling each other off, waiting for the other to make the first move.

Well folks the first move is almost upon us, and it is inevitable that more and more people will take up the concept of Formula racing.

If we play our cards correctly, F16 will be the formula they take up.

I have plenty more to say on this matter, but this will do for now. I won't double post this on the Taipan forum as most interested parties look here any way.

Regards Tony Jenkins
Blade 002

The idea is to cater for the 10 or so taipan 4.9 crews who would be attracted to sail in F16 mode in a series prior to our main event, the taipan nationals. We only envisage this as a warm up for the nationals, which will have a fleet of 40 to 50 4.9's.

Any other F16 is most welcome to sail in the series, although it is recognised that there are clashes with other regattas at this time of year, plus accommodation issues, which may prevent non-taipan crews from competing.

As for an official F16 National titles, the Forster regatta, in conjunction with the F18s, seems the logical venue. A significant fleet of taipans sail at this regatta in any case.

Representatives from the various classes/manufacturers need to get together and make it happen. Why not aim for an inaugural event in 2004?

Regards


Phil Edwards
TCAA President

Of course I will follow the lead of Phill as he is the Aus representative. So in this post I'm acting as a normal enthousiast coining one or two idea's.


>>We only envisage this as a warm up for the nationals


I think that would be the right (fun) format, mostly because the Taipan Nationals are the more important venue and I think we must avoid distracting from this. Hence it may be a wise idea to not call this event the unofficial F16 nationals, moreso because the mozzies are unlikely to make it due to conflicting dates. And I would like to propose to reserve the identifier nationals for a more serious attempt to get all type of F16's out to a single event. I know that in basis this is just semantics but nevertheless. I think Phill suggested to name this F16 event linked to the Taipan nationals something like the Victoria F16 challenge or something. I think something like this would be a good path to take.

It may even highten the feel of this linked F16 event to present it as a "series of spi training in earnest". I expect most Taipan F16 sailors to be relatively new to spi sailing. And the trick with spi's is that a crew needs to walk up the learning curve in their own speed to a control level sufficient to race the setup. Pressuring spi sailors was found to not be a good idea. Mostly the spi is a daunting thing to many novices while in itself the handling is easy enough after a few trial runs in medium winds. Also it may be a good idea to ask a more experience volunteer to run a few pointer sessions or something. With this the event is assigned a lower threshold to participations and the focus on covering the learning curve may convince more spi sailors to came out than a pure racing feel might do.



I think Phil Edwards said it right when he wrote :

>>>As for an official F16 National titles, the Forster regatta, in conjunction with the F18s, seems the logical venue. A significant fleet of taipans sail at this regatta in any case.


The fact that the F18's are there in strong numbers will make it very attractive to show what the 16's can do under a spi. In short; this is a good venue to show that there is a good alternative to the F18's. I think there were enough taipans in this event over the years to allow both a spi fleet and non-spi fleet without making dividing up the fleet a serious issue. Both fleets will have significant numbers making it fun for all.


>>Representatives from the various classes/manufacturers need to get together and make it happen. Why not aim for an inaugural event in 2004?

I'm willing to aid anybody in this endeavour; I know that AHPC will be interested in this and I think I'm strongly mistaken if I were to say that the Mosquito's and Blade people were not up for it. So I think the basic "want" and "willingness" is present in all and now coordination is required to make it attractive to all and make it happen. Rumour has it that a another Aus F16 builder may launch with another F16 design somewhere in the midrange future.

From my personal viewpoint I think that "getting together and make it happen" would (really) help in raising the Taipan profile in Europe ; this sort of suffered a little bit with the growth and introduction of the newer F16's (Stealth and Blade). The other issues causing this are already identified and being adressed by the builder. I'm firmly of the convinction that increasing cooperation and coordination between the Taipan class and the F16 class will have only positive effects for both classes. The succes of the one will be boosted by succes of the other and visa versa. And as I have often expressed in the past, a design without a spinnaker (option) has become unmarketable in Europe. The US may be slightly milder in this but not by a significant amount.

I will send you (Phil E.) a private mail as well, cc-ing Phill B., to investigate the possibilities of "getting together and make it happen"

With kind regards,

Wouter

E-mail has been send. I don't have your mail adres Phile, so I've asked Dave to forward it to you.

Wouter

Thanks Wouter

For your reference it is phil_ef1@energyfocus.com.au

Regards



Phil Edwards

Tony,
An "Official National" title would require the F16 to be a "National Class" regstered with AYF..

Im not sure what the current AYF stamp requires.. But it probably says something like a national elected council.. Class rules and constitution.. Also a number (3?) of state class bodies that are affiliated with the state YA..

To have an "official" National titles sanctioned by the AYF, for the F16's, would require affiliation with the AYF (or what ever they call themselves now) BUT there is nothing stopping any group of sailors getting together and sailing an event and calling it a National title. It would only mean that they wouldn't have their results accreditated by the AYF and printed in any national or state annual publication.
The Hobies sailed successfully for many years and conducted annual state and national titles with out being affiliated with any state or national authority.
Darryl J Barrett

So it is either that or change the name. I'm okay with either. However I would like us to be AYF recognized. Anybody knows what the requirements are for that ?

Wouter

Very good point about YA affilation.

I don't know the official requirement. But I will look into it on Monday and find out.

The wheels are in motion regarding a national constitution.

Assuming Forster in October is where and when we plan to meet as a F16 class, then that should be our goal to have the rubber stamps in place.
And if the bureaucracy is, that the official status can't be approved. Then "Offical" can relate to the first "organised" meeting of all the classes to race under the F16 banner.

Any other thoughts ?

Regards Tony

For AYF affiliation it would first require that a group of sailors meet to form "an Association" At which they vote people into the Minimum number of "officials" required ie president, secretary,and treasurer, (two people can fullfill all these positions if necesary ie secretary and treasurer can be the same person) the "association" then has to have a constitution voted into effect, the assosiation then has to apply to, with a copy of their constitution be registered with the department of consumer affairs (or what ever the department responsible calls itself in each state) It then has to open a bank account in the associations name with two signatories to be able to access that account (president and treasurer usually). Once all this has been done then the association presents itself to it's state yachting authority and apply for affiliation with that body (and as a by product by association, they also become affiliated with the national body) The state body will reqire a copy of the constitution for their approval and ratification and the appropriate fee, and generally after their next "race committee" meeting approval of the affiliation will be sent to the association.
To become truly national (although not absolutely necessary) there should be assosiations formed in other states with the same association name, but, with the addition of their appropriate states name as part of their associations name, these state associations then become "affiliated with the main or national association.
Darryl J Barrett

The mechanics of forming an association are really quite simple, and to become affiliated isn't difficult, the biggest problems generally are getting a group of people together that can agree to, some times the most simple of things like 1. The name (sounds simple but you would be surprised at how many arguments have occured at the forming of a new association over "THE NAME")
2. The constitution. There are hundreds of different constitutions availabe that can be tailored to suit any association, Every state Yachting authority have one's that they will make available willingly and free, but when it comes down to the small (usually unimportant) items the more people that are present to make the decision, the more violent the disagreements are over the smaller points.
There is a saying that "god created the horse, then he thought about it and decided that he would get a second opinion so he formed a committee of "people" to design the "horse" using all the same criteria that he had used. What the committe came up with after many arguments and compromises was the CAMEL" What you have to make sure of when forming a new association is that you don't end up with a "camel".
Darryl J Barrett.

Darryl,
I may be completely off base.. As I haven't looked at the AYF rules in a few years..
However calling any title "National" or "Australian" without AYF sanction leaves all who sail in them open to disqualification at any "recognised AYF event". This means any State event (I dont know about club events)..

Back when I last looked at the AYF rules anyone sailing in a nonsanctioned title automatically lost his/her AYF membership..This membership could be regained if they rejoined.. Im not sure about your state but in WA, State and AYF memberships are included in the sailing club fee structure..

I believe the Tiapans are an AYF recognised class and thus hold "recognised" titles.. I can just imagine the happiness all round if someone like Ashby sailed the "National F16 titles" to promote Tiapans and then a few months later, was 6 bullets up in the world A class titles, and gets fingered as a non-member of an affiliated national body.. He may find his non-membership would result in all his results being found void.. Or even if he was sailing later in the Australian Tiapan titles.. Has this happened yes.. I recall vaguely a crew (Tornado?) was scrubbed from a title because they sailed in an "nonsanctioned H16 event"..
It may also pay to review the use of "NSW" or "state" in any event..

This is the reason we had to drop "National" and "Australian" from the Javelin titles..

The Taipan National Association is affiliated with the AYF (now called Yachting Australia). This required providing them with our constitution, contact details for the President and Secretary and an annual fee of $80 (I think). I don't believe there is a requirement to have separate state associations.

We also are formally incorporated as an Association in NSW, which gives some legal protection to the office bearers.

I can provide a copy of the taipan constitution as a starting point.

According to NSW government regulations to set-up any association requires a meeting of at least 5 people, where the rules (ie the constitution) of the association are agreed, a person is nominated to act as Public Officer to apply to the Dept. of Fair Trading to register the Association, and a minimum of 2 people are elected as committee members. The Incorporation fee is about $120 from memory. That's it.

The initial meeting to convene the taipan Association was done by phone hook up involving a representative from each state and AHPC, the designer/manufacturer.

Regards


Phil Edwards

Any individual can sail in any event that they like that is not associated with, connected with, or in any way, under the control of yachting Australia without it being any business of theirs. The only things that they have any control over are events that specifically come under their auspices ie class's, clubs, sailors, and class associations who atually put them selves under the ultimate control of yachting australia by the act of becoming affiliated with YA. It should be obvious that YA cannot possibly have "control" over any one , class, club, organisation unless YA has previously gained the authority from those people etc, by them actually giving YA that control over them. Without that affiliation it would be like YA saying that they had complete control over ALL boats, clubs, sailors, and waters that were sailed on, simply because they (YA) say they do! nice thought for Yachting Australia, BUT it doesn't work that way with in the law. And if YA was to put down some stipulation that some non affiliated sailor who sailed at some non affiliated club or non affiliated event, could be penalised at some later date if they were then competing at a YA sanctioned event, I'm pretty sure that the resulting compensation claim would send YA broke forever! For years Hobie conducted "non Sanctioned WORLD TITLES" at which many Australians (and other nationals) who were at the same time financial members of clubs affiliated with YA, sailed at, placed at, and won, and later many of those sailors went on to compete at state, national, international, and olympic level, in other class's, and not one of them was ever even threatened with any form of sanction, WHY, because it is outside of the powers of discrimination of Yachting Australia or any other Yachting authority. It isn't "law" just because some one say's it is, it's only law when its proven in court.
By joining a yacht clud and paying the prescribed fee, a sailor automatically becomes REGISTERED with YA and becomes the beneficiary of certain benefits (ie so called insurance), but this doesn't mean that YA can dictate to you what type of boat you can sail, where you can sail it or what you called any type of trophy that you win (you could call it the "greatest sailor in the universe" event if you liked) and YA would not batter an eyelid, let alone try to bring forth some draconian disipline that they have no authority for. Yachting Australia (or for that matter NO BODY else) holds the exclusive, registered copy right to the term "National Title" and untill/if some one does it is a title that is free for any one to use, whether deserved or not.
It is not necessary for there to be affiliated associations in all/other states. there could be only one - the association that is the governing body for the whole of Australia, or it could be taken further, there could be the one world association which governs the "class" world wide. But it is usual for there to be many, smaller affiliates such as state associations, using the same constitution and abiding by the same class rules etc, as it becomes very difficult, even impossible, for a national controling body to govern every state from one location. How do they set such simple things as social events in WA if the national body is in say NSW. Similarly at which clubs do the sailors sail the state heats for F16 in Tasmania.

Darryl, as I said I may be well out of the loop..
So someone with more time should go read the YA/AYF regs then read the Sailing org rules..

Maybe the YA/AYF has changed since I was the Javelin class measurer 5-6 years ago..

The reason we had to change the titles as it was poined out in very specific terms from YA/AYF that if we continued any sailors that competed would lose their YA/AYF membership.. No biggy if one was only competing in only the Jav titles.. BUT if any one of us wanted to sail in subsequent registered "National" title or registered "International" title then they would have to apply for a new membership.. Or wait for the new club membership to reregister with YA/AYF..
So wouldnt be a problem if all one wanted to do was sail in club events and unregistered events.. But may be an issue for the stars..

Folks,
I have always intended registering the F16 with both the Department of Fair Trading and AYF to make it rigi dig.

I have been waiting to get a critical mass on a national basis. We have to not only raise the funds to pay the initial fees but the ongoing registration costs.
As interest is climbing at an ever increasing rate now may be the time to make it happen.

Phile- I fully support your suggestion of a National Titles at Forster. I would like to thankyou for your input in this discussion. I would also like to take you up on your offer and appreciate you emailing me the constitution submitted by the Taipan Association.

email- phillbrander@bigpond.com

I would also like to get a copy of the Mosquito constitution.
Tim, could you please advise who I should talk to about this.

Stewart- if you have any documents/advice that could assist please forward them to me. Also if you could email your phone number I'd like to call you some time.

Darryl- if you have any additional information that could help could you please forward it to me. Also I would like to thankyou for your helpful input.

TonyJ-
When you are talking to the AYF on Monday could please also raise Stewarts concerns and see if they can fill us in.

Looks like it is time to get the ball rolling.
I thank you all.

Regards,
Phill Brander
Australian F16 Representative.

Hi all

As promised, below is a summary of what it takes to become official.

I havn't had a chance to read it all yet, but I think it could all be organised without a lot of fuss.

In brief, you need to provide the following to become affiliated:

i) a completed Office Bearers Form (attached)
ii) a copy of your Class Constitution
iii) completed Sailing Calendar Form (attached)
iv) a copy of your Incorporation Certificate
v) affiliation fee for 2004-05

The fees for Class Affiliation in the coming year are the same as the previous year, these being:

ISAF International & Recognised Classes $110.00
National Classes $55.00




Regards Tony

Okay, so we now know what they require of us but what do we get in return ?

Wouter