From the Stealth website:



Stealth's upcoming A-cat apparently will also have canting. I know the big trimarans use canting rigs; I've seen photos of some experimentation with beachcats. Will be a first for a "production" beachcat? Anyone know how this works. Perhaps John P. could share some of the theory and function...

Let me introduce Mr. Bill Roberts.

Actually, didn't Carl Roberts (no relation to Bill) experiment with a canting rig in the Worrell 1000 development class back in the 1980's?

A number of people did expirement with this. The Reg White Hurricane Turbo (as was known as) sailed by John Downey + crew had a canting Barlow Wing mast....It was at our Club in the UK till it blew away in a big storm a few years ago.....

The theroty being that you creat more lift and less pressure on the lee hull...

I may be mistaken but I get the impression there is a bit of confusion here.

The canting on the new "Stealth" boat refers to the rudder.

The canting on Scoobies post refers to the mast.

Also I am not sure I have an understanding why anyone would call anything after probably the ugliest, slowest, military aircraft of this century. One of them lost an engine off of the coast of Newfoundland and limped back to St. John's, where it was parked next to our aircraft in the hangar. Ugly doesn't go the distance to describing it. If you didn't know beforehand it was an aircraft, you wouldn't mistake it for one.

if you are referring to the stealth fighter (bomber)... then your opinion that its ugly isn't really applicable.

The stealth fighter is designed for function above form. Its overall beauty is not important relative to its ability to elude the most advanced radar systems in the world.

Canting rudders eh? Sounds interesting.

Unfortunately I forgot to mention that it also functions as a (fighter) aircraft so poorly, that it can't quite make the speed of sound and it also needs computers to fly it owing to the complexity of making something so unaerodynamic (new word) actually fly.

I hope the sailboat doesn't require an autopilot to sail it! (just kidding)

The Steatlth Marine web site specifically mentions canting RIG on their new 18HT (and anticipated A-cat); the hulls and rudders are also canted but that is not new.

The stealth fighter wasn't designed to be highly maneuverable - idea being that it wouldn't need to since it's radar signature is so miniscule. I do agree with you though; they're not terribly sexy - but we're talking about boats here...com'on now...stay focused!

OOPS I goofed! RTQ2

I saw "canting rig" and instantly read into it, that you were referring to this: http://www.i14.org/boat/articles/bieker-rudder.html from another thread on foils. This thread also mentioned the Stealth.

I am getting focused...

Just to clarify, John Pierce IS canting the rig on the Stealth 18HT. I don't know how his mechanism works but he thinks he can generate up to 120 lbs of vertical lift / reduced displacement (if I have it right that is equivalent to a 20% reduction in overall weight w/ a 285# boat and a 315# crew).

I emailed John recently and he sent back the following: "...we think the canting rig system is good, in theory it should reduce the displacement of the boat by about 120lbs in double trapezing conditions. All my thinking with developing our boat is geared towards double trapezing conditions and up."

We will see how it works around the buoys and in distance racing. I expect John to race in Italy at the end of the month at the unofficial 18HT Worlds, and he may race in Newport in July - we're still working on him.

Other designers and builders are working on different approaches. There are discussions of a boat w/ curved/jibing daggers, and Guillaume Verdier, principal designer of Parlier's new ORMA cat has an 18HT w/ stepped hulls that should be in sail testing by now.

http://naval.architect.free.fr/multi/tomcat.htm

This is exiting stuff for the 18HT class!

Hunt
18HT USA-14

Hi Scoob

Recall the 10 ft beam Hurricane canted rig set up by Reg Whites son used in the 87 Worrell 1000 -

entered an experimental canting rig cat also that year -
though ill prepared for the race --out of time after building it to test and refine it .

Great fun though ,-a tough learning experience -

The Hurricanr had a simple set up to cant the rig
{from memory ,sorry if some element is missed}
Pretty simple set-up --a three or 5 to one block and cleat set up {as per main sheet blocks } but smaller was located at the side stay bases with a stopper knot end for safety .

The rig could be adjusted or canted to windward in higher winds --release one side and crank in the sheet on the other ,-one could also be added to the forstay to rake back as well .


warning --there is some danger in attempting to adjust the rig manually in higher winds ,-as the power of the rig can easily overpower and also if slack in the rig is induced then gibed violentely the slack -momentum and sudden stop could cause damage -
The large tris use hydrolics of course ,-to adjust rigs -nothing new ,-just adding more adjustment options .

Buoys racing ? not sure of the advantages -
Distance racing where your able to cant the rig and create lift or reduce downward sail pressures and forces only makes sence -This along with spin lift downwind should be very effective in distance racing -
http://www.ics.uci.edu/~truesdel/images/ellabache.a.gif-

the adjustable rig also really helps helm balance with spin up by raking the rig not only to windward but aft assisting the CE to CLR equation .{more nutral helm and controllable better feeling cat} --very important in high winds and seas .

We will see this again in cat distance racing this year or next -I,m going to miss the 1000 mile race this year -
{I.ll really miss it } have raced the last 6 in a row plus earlier years ,-but will be following the race here on catsailor --starting May 10 and cheering for all the teams and my favorites from previous races .
Hope to put a different type of 20 together for distance racing based on N A Formula 20 rules outlines and be back for the 05 1000 race .
The n a Formula 20 rules allow canted rigs !!

have fun
Carl

Carl,
Does it take two people to do the canting with that manual setup -- one person on each side of the boat? Or can one person do it? Is it a continuous line or something between the port and starboard adjusters?

Hi Mar

sure -you could use a continuous line between the two stay adjusters ,---but you want to restrict the amount of rig cant ,--thus the stopper knots .

John P may have developed a better system than I described -have not seen the Stealth system yet -
He is very innovative with an excelent line of cats
http://www.stealthmarine.co.uk/


One other nice feature of this canted rig adjuster set up is righting the cat --just as per B R designed into the supercats with the stay extender mechanism ,-have a SC 15 -they work great ,--the adjustable stays allow the same thing to occur to assist and make righting easier --ideal for a singlehander also or smaller crew that have trouble righting .

Tryed an A frame rig with mast base on traveler at the same time Chris White did --shown here
http://www.wingo.com/chriswhite/tiltrig.html

but would rec -the simpler adjuster blocks at the stay bases be added ,--not too difficult to set up ,--but more lines to pull and adjustments to learn if added -
and more to potentially break -
The advantages for distance racing seem very benificial where you can set the rig and sail for hours with increased speed potential and lift .

The dual -2 masted rig --via mini Parlier design -for the transAtlantic attempt in Dec has the masts canted in slightly towards one another ,-the windward main dropped when the wind is up as reef system --leaving the canted to windward mast in higher winds ,--should have similar benifits though not adjustable .

The transatlantic attempt is insane ,--but I would love to try it along with em ,-given the right 20 ft cat and prep ,along with an unlimited budget -/sponsor -

look for Mike and Dave in the 1000 this year -
They will have some great legs And win a couple -
and the whiley veteran on the 6/0 Rick and Brandy to win some also showing the real potential of the 6/0 hull.

Hope the weather and seas are kind again this year for em
good luck to all the teams and gr crews -