I'm using an internal system on my pole and I want to know if I can a solid tube like the hobies and f18's or a mouth and bag set up like the Mossies in South Africa. I think the bag on the tramp is crap. So, does anyone in the F16 class have the knowledge weather a tube is available and if not, where can I source a snuffer mouth from? I also need to know should the tube/bag be slung under the dolphin striker or broght back on to the top of the tramp? I wish someone would just make a bloody kit and be done with it. Any photo's or pics would be great.

Aus140

Jarrod,

Both AHPC and Stealthmarine make snuffer kits for the F16's. Both use the midpole mounted alu ring setup. I used to have several pictures of both setups but now I can't find them at all. I suggest you mail both John Pierce (Stealthmar@aol.com) and Greg Goodall (AHPC@ahpc.com.au) and ask for the pics.


>>I'm using an internal system on my pole and I want to know if I can a solid tube like the hobies and f18's or a mouth and bag set up like the Mossies in South Africa.

I have trouble understanding what you mean here, But yes you can have a ring and bag setup on pole and even a tube (I think Slimy in Aus makes them from carbon) on your F16. For the halyard system I would opt to make everythig external. Everybody is doing that now include top f18 crews because it is just alot cheaper (No expensive exit blocks). It is far easier to maintain and keep in good condition and it just works as well.

>>So, does anyone in the F16 class have the knowledge weather a tube is available and if not, where can I source a snuffer mouth from?

There are also a few other option available on the market for you. After all (and I measured that) the tiger bow section is almost identical in bow length as the Taipan. The differences between F18's and F16 are mainly found in the rear sections. I wouldn't be surprised is a F18 setup could easily be modified to suit a F16. I know it has been done before by a fellow F16 sailor here in Netherlands. The only issue between F18 and Taipan F16 is that the Taipan F16'd bridles are much nearer to the mainbeam than on an F18.

Overhere we are trying a new snufferring and Geert, who has that one after sailing with a ring for years, is very happy with his new setup. It look like a ring with the rearpart straighend out and here a roller is fitted. Apparently this reduced drag alot and minimizes the wear on the spinnaker. It has been used with non silicon impregnated cloth. I think it is worth a try to see if this is something for you.


>>>I also need to know should the tube/bag be slung under the dolphin striker or broght back on to the top of the tramp?

On a Taipan, above the tramp, no doubt about that. The Taipan mainbeam is not particular high of the water so rather not make its clearence lower than it needs to be.

Maybe Geert can take some pics of his setup and put them on the web. Or else I just have to travell over, try the thing myself and bring my digital camera along one of these days.

Good luck

Wouter

For point of reference, what are you using now? Mid-pole or end-pole snuffer? How long is the bag? 2 or 3 patches on your spinnaker? Do you have separate or joint tack and halyard lines? How is the retrieval line routed?

The bag goes nicely under the front cross beam but above the striker--it's out of the way and I don't notice it catching waves much. I know some US F16 sailors are using a snuffer mouth made by Guck in the US. The solid tubes seem like they would be pretty heavy and look very narrow--so I'm wondering how well they work as they seem popular and are present on lots of Tornadoes.

I think it would be nice to gather a collection of photos with various setups.

I run the Guck Snuffer that Eric mentioned above. I've got the bag running between the front beam and dolphin striker. Overall, I'm pretty satisfied with it. Sometimes I wonder if the hard 90 degree entry makes things more difficult than at forward facing hoop.

Originally, I had some problems with the chute blowing out the back of the bag after getting "massaged" down the length of the bag by waves. Since then, I've laced the back of the bag closed and run two pieces of bungy laterally under the bag right at the beam and at the aft end of the bag. These keep the bag snug against the bottom of the tramp and solved the problem.

I also found an interesting tornado snuffer here. www.carbonmast.com...look for Tornado Snuffer.

Jeff.

Just made some pictures of my spi setup, but as it is an old fashioned analog camera it takes a little time before i can post them.
I can add that it is a mid pole snuffer, have 3 patches in the spi and since a roller is in the ring, friction is reduced so 3 in stead of 2 patches is no problem. The advantage ofcourse is that the bag doesn't have to be that long. In my setup it stops right in front of the beam. The bag is the same they use on f18 boats, and is just a little longer then needed.
The bag is connected relative tight to pole and beam, trying to avoid as much as possible windage and slapping through the water.
Mine has a combined hoist/tack line, but yes, one could be faster with seperate lines, it's getting popular over here.

Geert

Taipan #186

Jeff.
This sounds like what I'm after. Do you think you could point me in the right direction for some photos or at least some point of contact where I can get one of these. I also have found a problem with the pole wanting to pull downwards away from the bridle plate when I tension the end stays of the pole. How do you keep the pole up at the bridle? I tried a piece of rope but this would obstruct the bag. Would it be better to tie the top of the ring to the bridle plate and then pre bend the end of th pole down?

Cheers

Jarrod C

Jarrod,

Here's a link to the Guck Inc. site for the "Skunk" snuffer.

http://www.guckinc.com/skunk.htm

Re: attachment of the pole to the bridle...I have two attachments at the bridle.

One is a piece of line clove hitched to the pole just aft of the skunk hoop that attaches on either side of the bridle plate. This induces the pre-bend into the pole. It required me to cut away part of the sleeve holding the bag on the pole. Since this sleeve doesn't carry any real load, I've not had any problems with this. (note:the snuffer bag is sailcloth sewn into two parallel sleeves...one for the sail and one for the spin pole.)

The second bridle line is clove hitched to the spin pole immediately forward of the snuffer hoop and attaches to each forward chainplate. This keeps the center of the pole from bending horizontally.

Hope this makes sense....drop me a note at jeffreyjwoodard@yahoo.com if you have any additional questions.

Jeff.

I just wrote to AHPC in OZ about their snuffer products and got a nice e-mail and a bunch of photos. With the pole too expensive to ship sensibly, the ring and bag cost $264 AUD which works out to only $190 USD. (See attached photo.)

This is CHEAP! Compare with the Guck site which says $599 for their midpole "Skunk" alone.

Greetings,

On the subject of spinnaker set ups, will a 1 inch (26mm) aluminum pole be strong enough for use as a spinnaker pole? That size (25.4mm with a 3.2mm sidewall) aluminum tubing is relatively easy to come by in the States.

Or has anyone tried using a piece of a windsurfer mast?

And I will try to post a picture of USA 74 sailing by next weekend.

John

The spar off a Sunfish works good for a spinnaker pole on my F16HP. It has a 1.5" OD and is anodized aluminum.

Jennifer
Taipan 4.9 #262

Hi John,
In Oz we have been using sailboard masts, aluminium and carbon for a couple of years on our Mosquitos as Spinnaker poles both have been excelent for the job very light and strong, with small tip diameter [low windage] being another advantage. Don't know of anybody using a standard windsurfer mast though, being a old sailboarder racer I had bits of aluminium mast in the shed to experiment with.
Straight aluminium tubing is used on most other cats with spin. I have seen, but usualy more like 50mm with a thin wall.

We have some great detail and pitures of spin. setup on our Mosquito website.
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mosquito/sp_rigging.htm

Regards Gary.

Thanks for the input!

I was able to track down 38.1mm X .065mm for $2.20 per foot. Plan to pick it up today.

John
Nacra F16

1863
I would not encourage the use of any pole section under 40mm in diameter with a 1.6mm wall thickness. These take an extraordinary load in the gusts and skimping on this may lead to big damage!