-1- Speed is EVERYTHING. You may even ride a wave under an angle as long as you have sufficient speed

True

-2- ride by steering on your sails and with only the help of the luff rudder. Keep the lee rudder out.

False - Both rudders need to be down but not locked. This goes back to item 1.. speed is everything. The more rudder you can get in the water the more speed you can develop into the next wave.

-3- Both crew in the luff hull and both near the mainbeam. NOT in front of it, NOT near the rearbeam and then just sail the boat. If they rudder kicks up but you still have speed than stay where you are and adjust you sail setting to keep speed and some form of steerage. Slowing the boat down and get to the rudders = STUPID, Getting the leeward rudder = DOUBLE STUPID

False again. In those huge waves by sending the crew forward it would keep the boat from tipping over backwards. Many boats tipped over backwards that day that didn't send their crews forward. The I20 steers 100% better as soon as the rudders can be locked. If you think it is deep enough go ahead and lock the rudder between waves. Once the rudder is locked it goes back to item 1.. speed, you can get a lot more speed with the rudder locked down.

-4- If you have a jib then never uncleat is and have it pulling all the way. Steer, if you have to by sheeting in a out on the mainsail. Don't centre your main traveller, keep it out as well.

Mostly true - I steer with my main traveller mostly. I start with the main loosely sheeted and travelled down about 2-3 feet.

-5- Set as soon as possible the luff board. Even a little board in the water makes a noticeably difference and makes steering by the sails alot easier. Yes even 6 to 7 inches will make a difference and you only need water a foot deep to stay clear of the bottom that way.

True again.

And your use of the word "stupid" is insulting in this case.

Wooter, I'd call you "stupid", but that would be an insult to stupid people.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com

Wouter, you need to be a bit more careful in your choice of english words. In the context that you seem to be using it, STUPID is a very harsh word (and probably not what you really mean at all).

Might I suggest that you really mean to use the word UNWISE, which might seem to mean the same but in fact lends a very different emphasis in this context?

Regards to all,

Hey guys, let`s keep it nice.
Wouter, if you replace the word "stupid" with the word "crazy" you might have gotten away with insulting the guys, without insulting them ! (saying it`s crazy to be trying to get the leeward rudder down while a beeeg wave is about to fall on your head is better than saying it`s stupid.) Anyway, most sailors would battle to contest the fact that we`re all a little crazy, anyway.
Comparing Texel waves to Jensen waves is just plain 'crazy'(stupid?), anyway. The carnage at Texel this year was caused by an onshore wind with large waves and close sets, enough said. We all know how hard it is to launch in that, whether it`s at Jensen Beach, Texel or anywhere else.
Congrats to the guys who sailed and finished, even those who DSQ`ed for getting one of the markers wrong, man I`d be mad, 120 boats DSQ`ed must mean that the course markers were extremely difficult to see given the sea-state.
C`mon guys lets all grow up, I mean what are you acchieving by saying that you didn`t see any F16`s launching in the photos, if there were only 5 or so of them in some 250 starters, chances are you wouldn`t have seen them even if you were AT the event. By that logic, the only photos of Dart 18`s at Texel I`ve ever seen over the years is of them upside-down in the surf, so can I "logically deduce" that ALL Dart sailors don`t know how to surf-launch ? If I did, well, then I`d be a real smart guy, AND I`ve had annoyed a good few Dart sailors who DO know how to surf-launch, as well as those who don`t, so why do it ?
If we think that belittling others on a public forum is the only way to gain some self-esteem and respect, then we are truly a sad bunch. Sharing ideas and tips is great, but lets not go calling eachother names, please.

I think Wouter's english is good enough to understand the exact meaning of the word stupid, surely he makes it clear in his previous statement. I think he knows he's being insulting.



We all have different ways of nogotiating the surf, I wouldn't agree with Wouters method, in my humble opinion, getting your rudders down ASAP is the correct way to go, its rudders down, crew forward, speed up. When your rudders are down then you can move forward. You need rudders for speed and steerage. I don't think trying to steer with the sails in heavy surf is the right way to go.


Gareth

Doing what these few Worrell sailors did is very wise !

(Feel in any other positive feel good word that will make you feel happy; and double check your boat insureance, coz you are going to need it )

I guess 1+1 equals not 2 but rather (20-18)

Wouter

Hi -
The old catsailin expression applies -

{{if ya ain,t breakin s#@t once in a while ya aint really sailin now are ya }}

The only sailors that havn't broken rudders or castings or boards etc being forced back in to the beach are the tourist types in plaid bermuda shorts that just talk ,--or in this case just post --they don,t really have the time or experience in more extreme ocean racing conditions to offer much ,-except *&^% comments ,-always better applied in self introspection .--Very few catsailors or percentage of really have much time in these types of conditions .-
An intragal part of distance racing is boat prep and tuning ,--most race teams spend a day or two before ocean race events doing nothing but going over every part,bolt pin ring mast rig hardware -safety gear and fitting etc and test sailing it before the event begins.

At Jenson Bch in the 2001 1000 mile race teams broke nuerous rudders --- castings --then the other rudder and themselves in numerous attempts to get out thru surf with a really nasty undertow --side current --of 8 knots or more ,-That type of current causes loss of steering once a breaker hits making course correction -recovery very difficult ,--as appears to be the case in this years Texel race of 50 MN according to the reports and comments from those racing .

Often pictures were taken --snapshots in time ,--catching a skipper or crew temporarily out of position checking a broken rudder etc ,--one does not know unless there ,--they are guessing and often drawing false conclusions along with simplistic mischaracterizations directed at very excellent sailing teams with much greater range of experience.

The I-20 since that race and largely due to it has new rudder castings and new stronger larger rudders .
The process of trial and error with improvement to durability occurs on all boat types. Improvement to them over time as weaknesses are exposed in these types of conditions HOPEFULLY DOES OCCUR AND BOATS IMPROVED .--
I can,t think of a better testing ground for catamarans -
-
It is basically the same OCEAN ,think conditions were similar,-there are most likely designers at the cad system working on the new reinforced versions of parts that failed to make improvements and also sailors that realize they need more time and experience in ocean racing conditions ,-- it is how we develop.--nothing s#$@ d about this .

One thing noteworthy in comparing 1000 or 500 mile race events to 50 mile Texel type race events is ----yes --yes ----the hamster is turning the wheel ,---it is ----yes!! --
--distance involved ----ding ding ding .

THE ATTRITION RATE in a 1000 mile event over 10 days in every imaginable condition and sea state along with accumulative physical aspects over days on sailing teams is very different ,--The cyclic wear on parts either boat OR of human variety is multiplied greatly.

The Great Texas RACE is being run next week ,--hope there is some video of the race along with pics and web sites .
Steve has done great things with this race .

This is one aspect of rekindling the sport in the US ,-
more great events and the media aspect that helps generate interest .The popularity of H-racing was attributable largely to very positive advertisement and media imagery ,-Hobies were on the cover of magazines of all types ,-used in ads -and the environmental and social enjoyment aspects were made known along with the great adventure sailing experiences of all types bring .

I hope the Tybee 500 is still scheduled to be on OLN tv --There are always great video tapes available from Robert and Jeanie also ,--we sometinmes forget how fortunate we are .
In next years event I hope the field once again expands to 20 or 30 teams,--it may take additional boat types to accomplish this ,--looking for a more open type class category with seperate start and hopefully other teams interested enough to enter in 06 on them .
Hope to see some there .-

OK, lets us just settle one argument.

The distance around Texel is around 36 miles as the crow files :

The course of the round Texel race does not follow the contours of the island precisely. Certain areas are forbidden territory so actually the distance will be somewhat longer.

See number 10 in the Round Texel Sailing Instructions below.

10. The course
10.1. The course is clockwise around the island of Texel and has a length of approximately 60 NM. Marks are (large) cylindrical regatta buoys.
The course is shown on a separate page with the sailing instructions.

C'mon gang, can't we all just get along?

There is one very big difference between the Worrell start and the Texel launch.
The Worrell boat were RACING from the beach and the texel boats were only heading out to the starting line in no hurry.

The trick in weezerspeak is that words mean different things when refering to Americans than when talking about europeans.
Example:
About Americans - "Halve the Worrell teams that year compounded on the bad conditions by doing stupid things while sailing through the surf."
About europeans - "A quarter of the crews at Texel can be seen to perform similar no-no's."
So the europeans made mistakes(no-no's), but the Americans did "stupid" things.

About europeans - "The other halve was smart and knew when to throw in the towel."
You see, they were "smart" because, by weezies definition, they were too stupid to know how to navigate the surf.

I appreciate KW pointing out to everyone that he was at another small event a short distance away instead of working on some big work "project".
That "project" was supposed to be his excuse for not being able to attend the Texel.
He has been bragging about the Texel and his "bad-butt surf" launching skills for five years and yet he has never completed the race.
Why is that?
Is he "original recipe" or "extra crispy"?

We now have HRH King Weezies definition of "The worst sailor".

The best part is wizzer taking a still picture of boats he has only sailed a couple of times, and knowing everything that happened before and after the picture was taken, the depth of the water, and how big the surf was or wasn't off the edges of the picture.
AMAZING

He is even so arrogant as to think that Mitch Booth gives a damn about anything he ever said.

I am glad to see the old America-hating weezer come out from under his rock.
It as been a long while since he let his true feelings out.
Keep talking weeze so everyone can know you as I do.

I prefer to look at interesting pictures like the one attached

sorry

So are you saying that the winning boat averaged 60 / (2+(10/60)) = 28.8 knots?

Then you you probably need to heed some of your own advice here Carl with regard to "Bermuda" shorts and who is wearing them.Being from Bermuda,the people I know who wear them are some of the best most experienced sailors in the world.How much do you really know about Bermuda Carl,It's people,the island.I am not disputing your experience here on this forum you have done your races,you are one of the few that partake in the many discussions about sailing catamarans in all conditions. I'll single myself out here,I try to make a go with this cat sailing.I pay my entree fee, I take the boat out beat me and my wife up.Sometimes I even finish the whole damn race. The fact is that it really does not bother me what you say about "Bermuda plaid shorts"and what Wouter says about his observations on sailing overall. The fact that you think that your word is definative and absolute sometimes does. I do not think anyone was hurt in this thread,if anything it put a little badly needed zip in forum. I'm ready to go sailing in my Bda's ..... "Round of "Dark and Stormy's" for "All you all"

Ok....so you don't give a $hit. Fine. You're not helping yourself here. Why are you this way? Instead of being constructive, you are destructive - and that's just not fun or helpful to this sport or my blood pressure. At least you could just keep it to yourself.

hmm, looks like things getting nasty. I think it was very wise of the people to stay ashore. We were out in a nacra 5.5 who's worth $3000. I do not think I would have went out on a $15000 + F18 or Tornado. Halfway trough the race we had to give up due to the fact that the portside hull was breaking...... Now I'm just unhappy, I would have gone grazy if this has happend to a more expensive boat.. BTW dear Wouter, were you at texel and did you start & fininsh

Hi ds

Not sure if the post was meant to be humorous or not .

On the off chance its not ,--there is obviously a large disconnection between intended humor about tourist types that often wear plaid shorts -Roman lace up sandals with white knee high sox --etc etc
{{sometimes called bermuda shorts by department stores }
and the affection someone may have for an island or its people .---The department store shorts -plaid or otherwise do not absolutley define an entire populas or nationalities characteristics ,--to suggest apparel does condembs many EU posters ----visualize -two wild and crazy guys --on the saturday night live skits --I E plaid pants ---gold chains etc ,--
Assure you I would love to visit Bermuda and learn about its unique culture AND PEOPLE --i refuse to go anywhere as a tourist ,-and always attempt to understand a region and its peoples customs ,-why they develop ,its ecology ,and sence of history --it always fasinates ,--,http://www.bermudatourism.com/docs/index2.html--

confession --I do often wear a pair of plaid shorts
as jammies --{sorry for that mental pic }

I did live in Hawaii for 6 months when younger and got a sence of its beautifull history and culture.Very sad in many ways how beautiful it is ,-phrases and speach patterns always engage and end in voice tone inflection , how the island has become overcrowded and native peoples displaced .Such a beautifull culture .

Funny ,-there always seems to be a wonderous ironical aspect to peoples posts who accuse others of some type of human falt or failing ,--this must be due to the fact that in order to recognize the falt one must adopt the human condition first in some form themselves ,--though often not recognize the irony .

example --wout stating --{stupid sailing }--the adjective MORE APTLY and better applied in introspection --FIRST .

I E In this instance the stated opinion that quote --
"The fact that you think that your world is definative and absolute "
I would, in intended good humor and helpfull intent , point out that a person that thought shorts --plaid checked or otherwise defined a peoples character ---believes in a much more definative and absolute world than most.

Am I equally guilty of human falt --of course ,-
If you care to point out specifics please do so on the private e-mail available here .--thanks ,

O K -now bring on the white sox fans --and Roman sandal contingent -- and those EU guys in plaid pants and gold chains --

Best regards DS --have fun and don,t take things stated here on a catsailing forum too seriously --and look for that wonderous irony always present in our lives .
Carl

Hey Carl, What's this EU thing. Did you ever consider what we think of the dress sense of American tourists arriving off a plane or bus in our cities. LOUD is a word we use.

This funny world of ours... And we wonder why there are wars when we can't even discuss these silly little issues without getting bent out of shape.

loud ---and obnoxious also --typical US tourists -Agree -
my mother and father-inlaw just visited --a family history quest vacation ,looking up extended relatives and family ,--you must have seen them .--
sorry bout that .--though most here don,t realy consider the UK part of EU .

side note --you would be amazed at how popular Irish Pubs are here ,--just finished assisting with design on a new one that friends opened recently in Hartland MI ,-they used the Irish Pub company that travels back and forth across the pond and brings back artifacts antiques etc from Ireland as interior decor ,--add traditional music from numerous local musicians,-employees from Ireland that run them ,-and you would feel very much at home at any of them -also one locally in Brighton MI and Ann Arbor MI .

all the best
Carl