The standard A-cat would beat the M18 and category 1 18sq's upwind, you think ?
Think again !
I disagree, it strongly depends on wind speed. I do not have any experience with the M18 but, I have watched A-Class against Cat 1 18 sq for 3 years and have sailed in it for 1 year.
Upwind:
The A-class has an advantage in very light wind
The A-class has an advantage from the point the A's fly a hull until the 18 sq starts to trap. From that point until the A's can't control it's even. After that the 18 sq's have the advantage.
Downwind.
It's even until the A's go wild. After that the A's are faster until it's too scary to wild thing (I have never seen an 18 sq go wild.)
This has been an gradual development. When the A's first appeared in my area 4-5 years ago, the 18 sq was faster. But, the A-class skippers have been getting faster mostly due to improved techniques
All of this depends on the skipper having enough experience to sail the optimum course for wind and wave.
Re: Which cat is the fastest?
[Re: carlbohannon]
#52029 06/30/0512:27 PM06/30/0512:27 PM
In heavy stuff I would go with the SC20. It will take alot more abuse than a T and with the 12' beam its more forgiving.
Seriously? I've seen more SC20's have fitting and hull failures than Tornados (I can recount three critical SC20 issues - 2 hulls peeling up at the shrouds and one beam/hull retainer pin failure). However, to keep that in perspective, the SC20s that suffered damage had a good bit of age on them.
With regard to websites, you'll have a hard time finding much on the CF20 as it is pretty much a custom one-off that they're working the bugs out of. You can find out more about the Supercats at www.aquarius-sail.com
Is the ARC-21 the same cat as the Supercat 20? - 'Cause I did not find any info on the Supercat 20 at "aquarius-sail.com".
No the ARC21 is a different boat. The CFR20 is a one of a kind as far as I know. There is one CFR20 being sailed in FL. The SC20 Tall Rig or SC20TR is different from a standard SC20 only in the sail and mast plan. The difference is huge and the SC20 is a totally different animal than the SC20TR.
It all depends on what the hull number is. If its below 84 you probably have a bullet proof boat made by the original Roberts/Edmunds crew. These boats weighed within about 1/2 lb of each other with 25lbs of gelcoat on each hull. After the sale the quality control was out of Roberts hands and some hulls weighed much more than the other. When Haberman took over the quality came back. I sanded down my #57 to the glass. There were no soft spots/delamination or any other problems. I know a guy with a 1984 Sc20Tr which has both as you mentioned.
Its just a matter of intent of who is building the boat. I believe to this day some of the original guys would have never let one out the door that wasn't almost perfect.
I bought a SolCat 18 that didn't survive the first sail. Soft spots, loose daggerboat construction, caused the boat to literally sink to below the surface. The shop I bought it from gave me a new boat [see pic] that I sailed until I bought my Tornado US498.
The SC boats were designed to survive the Atlantic Ocean not just a bay or lake. I have had two of the original SC20s that were true strong boats that went through the surf and waves as well as any boat I have had. I know my ARC22 won't take what my SC20 will because its designed for light air while the SC20 is designed for it all...
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Which cat is the fastest?
[Re: jimi]
#52036 06/30/0508:59 PM06/30/0508:59 PM
Ding; You are comparing SC 20TR base rating(no spin, pin head main) to that of the optimized Tornado. Hence, a big rating difference. If we add the spin and square top mods to the SC 20TR, I think the numbers get alot closer. Still, light to medium air, the SC 20 TR rating is gravy. Heavy air, and I think the T's rating is pretty sweet. Anyway, who said portsmoth rating/racing is fair?
20 LOA, 12'beam, 360sq ft main/jib, don't know what the spin size for certain but I think its around 600sq ft. and approximately 475lbs. Roberts said its the same boat basically as the ARC22 just 2 feet shorter. I believe the masts are different regarding spreaders and prebend.
thom
Last edited by thom; 07/01/0507:53 AM.
Re: gilligans
[Re: thom]
#52041 07/01/0508:35 AM07/01/0508:35 AM
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Which cat is the fastest?
[Re: Word]
#52042 07/01/0509:08 AM07/01/0509:08 AM
Ding; You are comparing SC 20TR base rating(no spin, pin head main) to that of the optimized Tornado. Hence, a big rating difference. If we add the spin and square top mods to the SC 20TR, I think the numbers get alot closer. Still, light to medium air, the SC 20 TR rating is gravy. Heavy air, and I think the T's rating is pretty sweet. Anyway, who said portsmoth rating/racing is fair?
Good point on the numbers:
SuperCat 20 TR, spin and squr top mn SC20H 60.9 64.3 62.1 60.7 57.5
Tornado (Int.) 2-Trap spi TORN 59.0 62.7 60.5 57.9 55.5
Keep in mind the SC20 TR finally took a rating hit for 05'.
I have less of an issue with the new SC 20 TR numbers.
The 'T' is the fastest 20 foot multihull in a breeze including the M20, SC 20 TR, Inter 20, N6.0 and the CFR 20. As Jake pointed out there aren't any Eagles in the US yet, but I suspect the Eagle will give the 'T' a run for its money.
The SC 20 TR is NOT a big air boat. It is optimized for light air and is simply out of it's element in a breeze, sooner or later it's stick down hull up.
As for the comment about DPN being fair. I'm sorry have you not met me... I'm David (DPN is a POS) Ingram.
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: Which cat is the fastest?
[Re: David Ingram]
#52043 07/01/0503:27 PM07/01/0503:27 PM
It seems that this discussion adresses at least 2 different questions: 1. Which boat is the fastest around a race track or on sections of a race track? (disregarding the crew-skill factor) 2. Which boat can reach the highest top speed? The latter question raises the problem of measurement method. The GPS-method is simple, but Wouter here points out questionable reliability of the method. I suppose the problems orginate from conditions when more than 3 satelites are not received continuously? My Magellan Meridian color used to produce erronuously high numbers before fixing a bad contact in the power circuit. With a 1-second update period, it now seems to be accuarate all the time, based on comparisons with numbers on my car speedometer (with known rather constant error).
Can anyone give us information on how to get reliable speed data?!
Stein
Re: Which cat is the fastest?
[Re: carlbohannon]
#52045 09/16/0502:25 AM09/16/0502:25 AM