I know there are a few old Nacra 5.0 sailors out there - don't know if this applies to the longer Nacras as well?

I've got a Prindle 18 that I've kept, but just bought a used Nacra 5.0 for a smaller lake I sail. Although the Nacra 5.0 is an '86, it was NEVER sailed so this is my first time sailing with new sails. What a differance, that little 5.0 solo is mighty quick with new sails.

Anyway, my question - rudder rake/mast rake on asmeticral hulls. After digging the leeward bow in relativly light winds, I've raked the mast aft about 15 inches. I've also raked the rudders aft as far as they will go by screwing out the nylon bolt spacer. I still have either lee or nuetral helm - no weather helm and steering is still a little squirly. Even with the rudders raked back, to me they still look forward, with the tips of the blades a couple inches in front of the transoms.

In order to rake mast further, I have to add another stay adjuster. In order to rake the rudders further, I have to find longer nylon bolts/spacers - but I do need to get some weather helm in the boat and stablize my steering.

Any suggstions on the rigging on this boat are appreciated. Did anybody find the nylon spacers not long enough to rake the rudders out from under the boat?

Dan

The factory Nacra rudder system should easily adjust the rudders where they need to be...be sure you check the rudder toe in to make sure they are aligned together - strange things can happen if they are out of alignment. Could you possibly post some pictures of the rudder system and/or the boat assembled?

I had a 5.0 and found it sailed very well without too much rake (ie no where near the H16 settings)--can't recall exactly how much I ended up with. Also, the nylon screws were plenty long; in fact, I had them only barely protruding from the casing and had a comfortable/small about of weather helm.

BTW, an unused 5.0 is a sweet find!

Eric, I'm glad you responded - I do see alot of responses from you concerning Nacra 5.0's.

I'll try to take pictures as I think that would help.

This rudder/mast adjustment issue is really weird. Eric, if I did'nt back the nylon bolt as far out of the housing at it would go, the rudders would be serioulsy raked forward.

This boat is an '86 but never sailed. I wonder if I have a mismatched boat and whether I have Nacra 5.0 rudder blades. They are flat on the trailing edge but dramtically curved on the leading edge?

I do know that that stays were incorrect. When I first set up the boat, all three stays were in the top hole of the stay extenders, the mast was too far forward and the stays were TIGHT. I have added a 2nd stay adjuster up front and am at the top hole. Side stays are half way down the adjusters. I've checked for a tangle up on the mast but that is fine with the stays shacled on the lower tang on the mast and the traps shackled in the top hole.



I cannot adjust for rudder toe as there is not an anjuster to lenghten or shorten the tiller - just a clevis pin on either side where the tiller connects to the tiller arm. I was concerned about this but I already checked alignment and that's fine.

Am welcoming your ideas!

Dan

Eric, I'm glad you responded - I do see alot of responses from you concerning Nacra 5.0's.

I'll try to take pictures as I think that would help.

This rudder/mast adjustment issue is really weird. Eric, if I did'nt back the nylon bolt as far out of the housing at it would go, the rudders would be serioulsy raked forward.

This boat is an '86 but never sailed. I wonder if I have a mismatched boat and whether I have Nacra 5.0 rudder blades. They are flat on the trailing edge but dramtically curved on the leading edge?

I do know that that stays were incorrect. When I first set up the boat, all three stays were in the top hole of the stay extenders, the mast was too far forward and the stays were TIGHT. I have added a 2nd stay adjuster up front and am at the top hole. Side stays are half way down the adjusters. I've checked for a tangle up on the mast but that is fine with the stays shacled on the lower tang on the mast and the traps shackled in the top hole. I've also checked to see if I raised the mast too high when I adjusted the dolphin striker - don't think so.

I cannot adjust for rudder toe as there is not an anjuster to lenghten or shorten the tiller - just a clevis pin on either side where the tiller connects to the tiller arm. I was concerned about this but I already checked alignment and that's fine.

Am welcoming your ideas!

Dan

woops, didn't mean to double post!

I don't get this..... When you tighten the lower nut on the mast post you don't raise the mast up, you raise the main beam up - pre-bend. Right? I just replaced the mast post and the instructions that came with it say that the distance from the top of the top nut (on top of the beam in other words)to the bottom of the mast ball should be 3/4 to 1 inch otherwise cut the rod down if it is too high. Mine was like 1 1/2 -1 3/4 inches which would have led to a connection on the shrouds and forestay extensions to about the top holes..... Could that also be the case with yours..?

Greg

Thanks Greg - I was not aware of the correct measurement between the nut and ball (sounds a little kinky to me). I'll check that measurement the next time I'm at my boat.

I beleive you're a new 5.0 owners as well? We should compare tuning notes? Where do you have your rudders adjusted - nylon screw in or out? Do you have weather helm?

Dan

Actually Dan, I'm a new 5.5 SL owner. I'm not sure how much tuning advice I could give that would only screw you up for a 5.0. To answer you, my rudder nylon screw is out. No weather helm. I was very careful adjusting alignment first and then through trial and error after each sailing run tweaked the rake. It's perfect right NOW.
Be glad to compare notes though. I'm working on simplifying the whole process from set-up to actual sailing to K.I.S.S. standards so my 9 year old son A) doesn't get board with the set-up process and B)can understand the principles of sailing while enjoying the hell out of the speed and thrill of doing the wild thing. To that end I've done a lot of things that racing enthusists on this website will find high treason. For instance, I got rid of the deluxe four way jib sheet adjustment (I can put it back on later if/when I want) to neaten up the tramp and give me one less thing to have to say to him over and over, "Watch out, don't step on that!" I simply shackle the sheet blocks to the tracks.
This week we have engineered (with my wife as sole judge of the safety factor) our methodology of stepping the mast with just the two of use. We utilize a front winch attached to the forestay and the jib halyard attached to the bridle and everything works smooth as silk. (Hey, my wife was even impressed). Now we have clearance to go sailing just the two of us and that is ALL that is important to me. I was given the gift of sailing pleasure by my dad, who died not long after, and I want to pass that on. Plus, if I can take a friend or two of his sailing once a week I'll be doing my part for the sport itself. My wife's father is a retired sailing coach from M.I.T. and he has been grateful for this opportunity to pass on a little of what he knows and to get a common thread to his grandchild. He's almost 80 but you should see the two of them hooting and hollering out on the wire. Big grins on both. My job is just to make it happen, safely and often.
If it's not tuned exactly perfectly I don't much care, quite frankly. There will be time for that.

Good luck and I'll help when I can.
Greg

Greg,

Glad to see someone else has the same beginning thoughts I have. I removed the whole jib traveler system temporarily for the mental health of my rookie crew. I am searching for ways to get a better angle pointing but am happy to learn as I go! Going to play with mast rake, bend, and rotation next!

Just a thought on your winch system. Do you use any side stays on the way up? I found that a quick line tied to the front trap wire on each side and led down to the corners of the front crossbar gives me a rock solid mast on the way up. I was having sway problems and was concerned for the safety of those around me! Now with the temporary hoisting "guy wires" it is a really safe and easy task. Now mounting a winch comes next.

Sorry if this is all redundant things you had thought of...just thought it might help!

Greg II

That is funny cause I just said to my wife/crew yesterday.... "Think I'll play with the mast rake next."
On the mast stepping,... After turning the mast on it's side and setting the pin in I usually swivel the mast to one side till the port shroud is taunt and then I have something to pull against. I can't picture exactly what you are doing right off with the trap lines but I promise to stand out at the boat and visualize it tomorrow as well. Always looking for a new idea. Especially if it adds to safety. I do like the idea of bring the mast up straight down the middle of the boat since it would make the winch mounted on the post load better than it does with my off to the side method. I'm very interested in anything that shortens set-up time as well. I find the attention span of my crew tends to wander. I'm thinking of setting up a fixed schedule of tasks and who they are assigned to (similar to a pre-flight airplane pilot checklist). Seems we always have either someone standing around waiting for orders or missing a step. Probably by October we'll have it down just to put it away for winter.
I starting thinking about utilizing an old electric winch I have lying around here and mounting it (not permanently) on the rear bar of my trailer then running a line attached to the winch under the trailer up to a block at the base of the post on the trailer (that holds the mast up while traveling), up that post to a block and then attach it to the forestay. The beauty of the electric winch is a long remote control that would let me steady the mast and lift it all from the back of the trailer. I could then walk right up with it and using a little aluminum ladder I find handy to get onto the tramp. I also love the tip I read on this forum a while back about attaching the job halyard to a shackle on the bridle to take the weight off the forestay and let you attach the forestay to the bridle without having to hold everything up in the air while you pull on the forestay and slip a pin and a ring clip on. That is a great step to add to the procedure.
Great to talk to you about this though. Thanks for the email. Feel free to email direct at Gregoryhill@verizon.net anytime.

Greg

I think I finally figured out the mast and rudder rake on my Nacra 5.0 this past weekend. I've got the mast raked back about 18 inches which is preventing the leeward bow from nose diving in puffs and I've got the rudders raked aft just to give me a little weather helm - boat has much better control now.

Thanks for all who gave me some advice in this thread.

The original Danno
P-18, Nacra 5

Greg,

I will try to explain without the aid of pictures.

The reason, of course, that the side stays don't provide side to side support on the way up is that their connection point is aft of the hinge point (the mast step) and they don't do their job until the mast is nearly vertical. By taking the ends of the trap wires and tying them off to the front crossbar, it places them inline with the hinge point and an equal partner on the way up giving the mast no room to sway side to side.

I happen to have camcleats on the outboard ends of my front crossbar that make it really easy to take a loop of small rope through the dogbone and down to the cleat giving me a nice cinch point. But even without the cleats, tying it off in some way to the outer ends of the front crossbar would give the same support and convert the trap wires into temporary "guy wires".

I am on my way to get mounting bolts for my winch right now. I am just going to mount it on the front mast support nice and high (actually I have a center mast support that I am going to mount a helper pulley on). This in combination with a ladder or crutch under the top of the mast (to keep it off the rudder crossbar and traveler and give it a little help in the first few inches) should make it a snap to raise single handed.

Let me know if you have any questions. I will be trying her out this weekend!

Greg

>asmeticral hulls
Hey wait a minute the 5.0 uses symmetrical hulls with keels to provide the lateral resistance.

The traditional angle of attack for sailing all the traditional Nacras, but especially the boardless ones, is to keep the leeward bow depressed as far as possible. This stands the mast back close to vertical despite the rake in the rig, and more importantly allows the narrow hull section forward to function somewhat like a centerboard. By "as much as possible", I mean that there should only be a few inches of bow above the water - more in wind, less to practically none in lighter air. If the deck is just awash in the puffs, you're perfect. Sail fast.