I have never used a mast float. I usually sail in deep enough water where the mast won't hit bottom when turtled. So, it is realtively easy to bring it back up.

But, I only sailed without gloves once. I learned really quick that $20 is well worth a pair of gloves that will last about 3 seasons.

On a good day 20-25kts when you are on the water for 8-10 hrs straight how in the world do you keep your hands from getting torn up? I don't have girly hands by any means. I also crew on a 70' gaff rigges wooden schooner that has Dacron halyards and sheets. Most of the time I lower the peak and the throat of the gaff simultaneously which entails letting them slide through your hands. After a week of this the callouses on your hands are pretty substantial.

But when I am on my Hobie my hands get wet and the callouses are ineffective. Plus with gloves I have a significantly better grip on the line.

Just my 2 cents

Gloves are not a luxury item. They are almost a necessity. Once when I didn't have any and needed them, I cut the finger tips off some work gloves. Not the best but better than no gloves.

About getting out of the turtle. It is not difficult. Don't try to raise one hull. That won't work. Just put your weight at the stern and get the bows to come up. The boat will flop over on one side and you go from there.

Howard

[color:"green"]Nick, I lived and sailed on a 35' gaffer for 2 years. I think letting the lines slide through your hands is not the best technique. Hand over hand worked for me. But perhaps the situation on a 70 footer is way different. Howard, You are certainly free to use gloves if that's the way you want to do it. You too Captain Dave.
I just added my comments due to the intensity of your "tips" to new cat sailors. It ain't necessarily so, and I think Bobs and gloves are optional. I would hate to think that new folks might be "brainwashed" by you experts due to the strength of your arguments, and wanted to offer them another opinion.
Best to all, Enjoy with or without whatever... [/color]

Ralph,

I know you are an experienced sailor though fairly new to Hobies. I found that the force required to tighten the main sheet in strong winds did a lot of damage to my hands especially in the beginning of the season. I don't really let the line slide out through my hands. I switched from the standard 5 to 1 blocks to the 6 to 1 and even with the extra leverage I still occasionally need to use 2 hands to tighten the sheet. Sailing my catboat I don't use gloves and don't find the need for them except when jibing. That large sail just goes out too fast and it is not possible to slow it down much.

Howard

And don't forget to remove the step link....sailing is a bitch when the mast won't rotate.

Hey Mr.WHOA,

"Intensity", "arguments", "experts", "brainwashed"?

Perhaps you should read the entire post again and ask yourself honestly if ANY of the adjectives you have used are an accurate reflection of either the tone or the content of what has been written here in this post.

- Perhaps you are just having a bad day.

Dave

Whoa,

I really didn't like to let teh lines slide through my hands, but with only 2 crew aboard, lots of wind, and a tightly packed harbor you need one crew to control the boat and the other is left to drop the sails. As you know you need to keep the gaff at a certain angle for the sails to stay organized. We were left with little choice but to lower both the throat and the peak simultaneously with only one crew.

Everyone, on the subject of gloves. You don't have to have them. People have been sailing for centuries and didn't have fancy sailing gloves for most of that time. But, for $10 - $20, you can get a decent pair. Why not try them and decide for yourself if you prefer to wear them. I thinkn the intension of that suggestion was that for most people gloves have become standard sailing equipment and they are trying to save newcomers from any bad expereinces they had.

I'm with you, Dave -- the bob is cool, suave and sexy! It would be irresponsible to discourage people from using a bob, especially new sailors and recreational sailors who usually are not sailing in a group environment. I think it is an important safety feature.

And any man who is intelligent enough to care about his safety and the safety of his friends and family who may be sailing with him is a very cool and sexy guy in my book.

As far as sailing gloves, they ARE necessary for sailing most catamarans unless you want to toughen up your hands by following a regular regimen of soaking them in a bucket of saltwater while massaging a hank of hemp rope.

Mary,

Thank you for the vote - I think I needed it! I was half-finished writing the new Bylaws for my Baby-Bob support group when I read your post. Thankfully, I no longer feel the need to write them.

Seriously though, I do not understand the aversion to the mast float. I do view it as a safety thing - albeit not a compulsory one. I believe I worded it as such in "my list".

I sail in cold, often shallow waters and never with a group (yet). One location (north east Georgian Bay) is VERY remote (no cell, no radio, no people - no nothing!). Almost all of the shoreline there is completely unsuitable for any type of watercraft landing - though such a location is really beautiful, it is also, as one can imagine, hazardous.

In my limited HobieCat experience, I have put a premium on getting out of the water quickly and efficiently - with as little chance as possible for requiring any assistance. The mast float provides some extra insurance on this count. It was not an expensive item and I really like the look of it too. It may be unneccessary for some, but not for me.


Dave

The bottom line on the mast float (or any other gear for that matter) is unless you race, do whatever makes sailing more enjoyable for you. If not worrying about turtling in shallow, cold water makes your day on the water more enjoyable, then by all means put a mast float on. Unless there are a bunch of beach cats up there, you are the envy of every other sailor in the area because you are on a cat and they are not. No one is noticing the mast float.

for me, the bob and the gloves are just luxuries... luxuries which i cant afford, i also have some burly climbing calusses in place of gloves and an old life jacket to keep my boat from turtling, but when reading on this turtling issue... i notice everyone just talks about how to prevent it, but how do you right it once it has turtled? ...plus i think the bob would keep you from going as fast as possible, and with an old boat, every little bit helps

If you look back a page you will see that I mentioned a little about getting out of a turtle. The trick is that you don't try to lift one hull out and over. You get your weight near the stern and get the bows to rise straight up. The boat will fall over on its side and you are out of the turtle. There will be a problem if your mast isn't watertight, however, so check it before you sail.

Howard

how do i see if its water tight, and if not tight how do i seal it? do i just like toss it in the pool or something?

There are instructions somewhere, maybe the Hobie website. It involves putting the mast in the water and looking for bubbles as I recall. I am sure someone here can be specific. I have never checked mine but have never had an indication that I needed to, such as turtling quickly when you go over. The only time I have turtled is when the wind was strong and blowing on the tramp.

Howard

Yah, that's pretty much it. Disconnect the shrouds and carry it down to the water. Get a friend to help hold one end and just push it down. Obviously there will be a little air around the sheave(s) at teh top of the mast but after that escapes you shouldn't see any more bubbles coming out. If you do, then you'll want to re-seal it. I did that last year. Drill out the rivets around the mast head (or base, depending on what side is leaking.) Pull out the old plug which is probably all crappy if it's been leaking and wet for who knows how long.... then get a fat pool noodle and (cut to fit) and shove it into the mast a little ways. Then cover with a thick coat of silicone (I used maybe 1/4-1/3 of a tube in a glue gun). When that cures ain't nothin' getting through for years. Unless you have to tear it out for some reason later. 8)~

why the pool noodle though? is it just to help it float or is it a replacement plug thing? and what if it were to leak around where the composite tip meets the rest of the mast?

Here is something to think about.
ISAF is trying to implement a new rule for trapezing. The rule basically wants trap equipment to be quick release so people don't get stuck under boats when they capsize.
Fair enough.
However, since nothing has been invented yet that would meet their requirements, they are having to amend their rule.

A better fix. A mast Bob. That way the boat cannot turn turtle and no one can be trapped under the boat.
If every boat on the water had a Bob, no one would think a thing about it.
Tell you this, I love the Bob on the Wave and do not think it slows the boat down at all.
Rick

Good point, Rick. I wonder what the posts would discus if the mast bob were the norm instead of the exception...

The pool noodle is a plug replacement. Technically, you only need to seal around the edge of the noodle that touch the mast, but for a small investment in time and money (a tube of scilicone and about 10 minutes) you can be sure that no water is going to make it past your mast plug as Jamie said.

When I began to get more confident in my sailing skills and would go out in more intense conditions I would turtle on those gusty days while tacking. As the bows came through the wind on a tack I would hit a wave and/or a gust and the boat would do a back flip (I later figured out that I was not getting my weight far enough forward, especially when sailing solo).

Once I got the boat on it's side by standing on a stern if I did not have a sealed mast I would not have been able to get the boat righted fast enough.

So, the point is take the time to check if your mast is sealed.

I am seeing alot of posts on this forum about the bob... do we need to make a forum post solely for the debate of this thing? and rick you may be right, if hobie manufactured all their boats with the bob nobody would have a bad opinion of the thing... or any opinion of the thing, i keep an old life jacket handy on board so when i flip i swim out and clip it to the mast, since i cant afford the bob

It seems to me most unfortunate that there is ANY debate regarding the merits of something which can (even just once) provide additional safety to an individual. With that said, I hadn`t even considered the chance of being trapped UNDER a boat until Rick mentioned it.

So far, no one has debated convincingly that a mast float WILL NOT provide additional safety to the sailor - because clearly it can in some instances, and obviously more-so for some individuals than others depending on one`s sailing habits or expertise. Other than the sailor who cannot spare the expense (a legitimate reason), the main reason NOT to have a float seems to be that it is "not cool". Such a battle of perceptions then becomes reminiscient of almost every other safey device which has come along in the past; whether it be forecast warnings to mariners in the early part of the century, or the device resisted by NASCAR which may have saved Dale Earnhardts` life.

In reality, most people can state with absolute confidence that they have never truly needed a life-jacket. They can further state that if they had never once worn one - in their entire life - they would be no worse off. They could then say (in some cases) how unnecessary that particular safey aid is/was - and represent themselves as living proof of their argument. This is not to suggest that a mast float is as important as a life jacket - because I do not think that it is - in most scenarios. The point is, we never really need safety devices until that rare moment when we actually do. The Bob falls into this category.

I am one of those cautious boaters who believes that Mr Murphy (the guy who wrote the law) was probably conceived, lived and died on a boat - that place we all love but also has a nasty habit - usually through a combination of unfortunate events - of causing even the best among us to end up in serious trouble.

As a newbie to the H16 scene, but certainly not to boating, I almost chose against the purchase of a mast float precisely because of the negative perceptions which I first encountered here on CatSailor. Ultimately, after thinking it through, I figured it was a good additional safety item that worked for my particular circumstances.

Putting a negative spin on anything that might EVER help someone in peril is a risky business at best. I believe this holds true regardless of how rare the perceived risk is said to be. If you do not like, or want to use a Bob, that is certainly alright - we all assess our own accommodation for risk. But, discouraging its use is entirely another matter.

Signed,

A sailor who CANNOT claim he has never needed a safey aid...twice.

Dave