Not argueing with the numbers. But the fairer side is not there because the F18 is an easy or easier spin boat. If that were the case the F16 would be on fire.

There are many reasons why the F18 is getting numbers and everyone has their own priorities. Nobody is happier to see the class grow and to see more women on the boats than me.

But the statement that the F18 is more female friendly than any other 18-20 foot spin boat is just false.

In my opinion the 20 enjoys a crew weight of 350-360 (pounds) , there are very few mixed teams that hit that weight. The F18 happily supports a crew weight from 276 - 340 (pounds), this point works very well for mixed teams.

And John, you've been on the front of both boats so you know.

I've got a Harken tatto (from the downhaul) on my face from some snap tacks that JC threw on me when I was his string b*ch, so I'll stick to the tiller, thank you...

And as I read the F18 fleet is building in number, but are they sailing distance stuff?

In areas where the F18 is popular, yes the F18's are doing the distance stuff. Weren't there 3 or 4 at the Great Texas? Which by the way a Tiger won on corrected time.

That's why I'm saying what I'm saying to what you're saying. I've been on both. The F18 is like being on vacation. I never get tired on that boat, unless I'm up all night writing a protest. And I'm not even in shape. I can one-hand the spin, and the sets/take downs are a snap by comparison once I get the bugs worked out.

Shorter mast, smaller 'chute... it's just plain less effort.

And the F16 is very likely to take off - look how long it took F18 to start really catching on here.

Thread now completely hijacked.




















and don't call me Shirley.

I've been pondering the idea of getting myself into an F18 for the woman and I before she goes into med school. But the more I think about it, the more I think that it'd turn into a divorce boat even though she's real high on the idea.

So I need a 20' if I want to be fat,
an 18' if I want a lady crew,
and a F16 if I lose all my friends and have to single-hand (NO pun intended)?

Hell, just skip the boat and go straight to the divorce. Save you about $12K. Besides, she'd get half the boat.

Okay, we'll agree to disagree.

As for the F16, it caters to the lighter teams. I just don't see a 330 pound team being competitive with a 275 pound team on an F16. Unless the class can do something to level the field for the bigger teams I don't see it gaining the same kind of acceptance as the F18. There is no doubt that the F16's are great boats, but that alone is not going to grow the class. It has to be competitive for a wide range of team weights.

I agree.
The crew does not have to be super-strong. It is a matter of time on the boat and getting those kinks worked out.

A well rigged boat makes all the difference in the world.

Tracie

See for some scientific foundation the analysis performed on REAL race data (Nationals) if you follow this link :

http://www.geocities.com/f16hpclass/F16HP_optimal_crew_weight_analysis.html

By the way 140 kg is the centre of the optimal weight range running from about 125 kg to 155kg.

For US sailors : centre = 310 lbs. The range runs from 274 to 342 lbs.

Naturally the boats will carry more weight but in a less comptitive sense. This range seems to be pretty unbiased over a range of sailing conditions. Actually we all know that weight only really plays a role in the range from 5 to 12 knots. The F16 is pretty power-up in this windrange. Just as powered-up as the F18's as a matter of fact. The direct result of this is that you don't want to be too light when sailing an F16, despite all the gut feelings you may have in contradiction to the science.

For the guys who fall asleep as soon as they see or hear the word science I have another explanation. I'm racing at 145 kg combined crewweight (320 lbs) and I'm finishing in the upper halve of F18 fleets ON ELAPSED TIME ! And I'm depowering that rig as soon as I hit 10 knots. Just last sunday (between two heats of our club race series) I took a 83 kg guy along on my boat for a short ride (he jumped ship from his own F18) under a mainsail alone in 10-12 knots of wind. I'm 82 kg myself = 165 kg on board = 360 lbs ! And he was fully trapping with me hanging overboard when going upwind at speed. That was just with the mainsail ! Guy was yelling :"gee mate, what a boat, never expected this"

We must also not forget that our advertised competitive weight range is only 30 kg (66 lbs) wide (from 125 kg to 155 kg) compared to the 65 kg weight range (115 kg to 180 kg) advertised for the F18's (= 144 lbs). We don't need a system to level the performance of the boat like the F18's have, our target range is already narrow enough to be fair using the same gear. I would even venture to say that we are more fair then the F18's with the performance equalisation system, but you may classify that as my personal opinion.





This is actually of no concern what so ever. The only thing that is of concern is the ingrained believe that short boats are slow and only suited for very small and light people. Time and time again I find that I need take sceptics along for a ride in order to convince them. No amount of "talk" has ever had the same effect. The gut feeling always seems to win out over the science. It is just how people are. No offense to you Ding !

Mind you, often it only takes 2 minutes of F16 sailing in 10 to 15 knots to have the sceptics do a 180.

Now I'm certainly not saying that F16 is the class for everybody. It certainly is not. But any crew weighting between 125 kg and 155 kg and looking to race hard will do well to consider the F16's. Crews from the larger weight range of 110 kg to 170 kg will have good fun sailing or racing these boat recreationally. You'll be surprised how quick these boat can be with 170 kg on them. Hell, I raced a Stealth F16 at 165 kg (with Bard) during the Spring Cup series 2005 in a fleet of over 30 F18's and finished in the upper halve of the final score on elasped time !

All races were in 5 to 12 knots of wind, the range you guys seem to consider the death zone for 165 kg (= 365 lbs) crews on a F18 ! We were doing it at this weight on an even smaller boat with smaller sails ! And we weren't that good as a crew (Bard and I) as we had never sailed together before.

No Dave, the problem (if any exists) is not the lack of any system that addresses the fears of the "heavier" sailors, but the perception most people still have of the F16's. You know, the kiddies boat syndrome !

Ohh by the way. Over here in Europe 155 kg (= 340 lbs) is considered the ultimate weight for the F18's

Fair winds to you all !

Wouter

I heard the other day that F18 Worlds were won 3 of the last 4 years by teams weighing 360 lbs.

They were very likely rock stars and it was blowin'. Wait...who was that? That doesn't sound right.

Got to agree with John. Raced the T for many years and could not believe the difference in load compared to the F-18. One hand to sheet in the kite on the F-18 compared with 2 on the T. As far as sets and drops go, whilst strength is needed and not out of the capabilities of a fit women, the most important factor in good sets and drops is fitness level.

Actually didn't you US F18 sailors do away with the weight equalisation system of the F18 class. Meaning you allow light weight crew to sail with the bigger jib and spi ?

If so then that could clarify the US experience.

Wouter

No. We're full up International F18 rules with the exception of a couple very minor things (like the onboard compass requirement). There was a request from one sailor through their F18 administration in the U.K. to do away with the light and heavy jib/spinnaker combination but it was not very well received there or elsewhere. We continue to use the combinations here in the US (and one of the top 5 NA teams was using the smaller jib & spinnaker sails for lighter crew weight - don't recall who). All sail size/shape, crew weight, crew weight compensations, and platform requirements are consistant globally within F18.

.

Susan Korz had the small sail plan-3rd overall!!!