| Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: BobG]
#63196 12/20/05 06:55 AM 12/20/05 06:55 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | IMO we might want to suggest something more akin to the french "raids" (or the arcepeligo (SP)) type races and use Tornado's and 49ers - afterall the other boats are boring to watch. Start at 08:00 and sail 60 miles for the 49ers and 100miles for the T's. Add some proper Navigation where by the course is not published till 1 hr before the start etc. Afterall, people watch the 15,000M and that is just around a track.
BUT critically, the venues chosen must be windy places!
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: BobG]
#63200 12/20/05 09:59 AM 12/20/05 09:59 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | I think part of the problem is that people still don't understand who is winning 1/2 the time.
If it's a long distance race, so from A, around the lighthouse at B, across the bay to the fort at C, back across the bay to the pier at D, then to the marker bouy at E etc. People (to a greater extent) will know who is winning. Also make it more than one boat per country, afterall, you (IIRC) still have to throw the qualifying distance to enter the Olly Discuss, mayke it a similar thing. Problem is how do you do it ? The IOC are trying to reduce the expensive sports (because some countries don't have the finances) so sailing is always at a dis-advantage as the kit is fairly expensive (excepting horses !!!!!!!!!!).
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: scooby_simon]
#63202 12/20/05 10:12 AM 12/20/05 10:12 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | But how exciting is sail distance racing to watch live? Not many lead changes take place. Over the course of a 6 or 8 hour Tybee leg, the lead doesn't change more than 2 or 3 times (usually not that much) and I think you wouldn't gain a whole lot of interest unless you cram a LOT of racing into a 30 minute clip.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: Jake]
#63203 12/20/05 10:57 AM 12/20/05 10:57 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | But how exciting is sail distance racing to watch live? Not many lead changes take place. Over the course of a 6 or 8 hour Tybee leg, the lead doesn't change more than 2 or 3 times (usually not that much) and I think you wouldn't gain a whole lot of interest unless you cram a LOT of racing into a 30 minute clip. X squillion people watch F1 and there are no lead changes !
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: Jake]
#63204 12/20/05 11:11 AM 12/20/05 11:11 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | I think that if we want to make sailing more exciting and spectator and TV friendly, we have to make it look more like motocross. Have short courses in very close to shore (and to heck with the shifty winds).
Have lots of fast reaching and lots of crowded, crash-and-burn mark roundings. Forget all the nuances of rules and tactics -- just pure boat speed and excitement. Have a crowded starting line with a reaching start and a short reach to the first rounding mark, so everybody gets there together, just like motocross.
From there you can have your weather leg and downwind leg if you want, and you can set it as marks to port or marks to starboard, depending on where the wind is coming from. Either the windward mark or the leeward mark will be inshore (depending upon the wind direction), but the finish should ALWAYS be back at the starting point, right near shore where spectators can see it close up. And if the whole course is short, you can have it two times around or three times around, depending upon wind conditions. This gives spectators on shore and media a lot more opportunity for filming each race during the most exciting portions of it.
If the course is set up so that the race starts on a reach and finishes on a reach, so much the better from the spectator standpoint. Then the boats can fly hulls and look spectacular coming in to the finish, just like the motocross guys do their twists in the air when coming in to the finish.
This kind of thing was done effectively with the Formula 40 racing and is now being done with the Volvo Extremes.
We have to get less serious and elitist about sailing and make it look like more fun and easier for the public to understand.
Reaching is the fastest, most exciting point of sail, and that is what the spectators on shore want to see. The "chess game" aspect of sailing, with all the attendant rules and tactics, is not media or spectator friendly.
I think we can still have all that on other parts of the course but also have very exciting starts and finishes along shore for the benefit of the spectators. | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: Mary]
#63205 12/20/05 11:21 AM 12/20/05 11:21 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
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Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | Throw a figure 8 course in there to "liven" things up for the spectators. Nothing like 30 boats reaching at high speed on opposite tacks at the cross...
Jay
| | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#63206 12/20/05 11:40 AM 12/20/05 11:40 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Whatever. The idea is to be able to make it easily viewable from shore by spectators and media. This makes it far less expensive for the media to cover the sailing events, since that seems to be the big issue as far as keeping sailing in the Olympics. Right now they have to do their coverage by helicopter or by boat. It is very hard on camera equipment to do it by boat (salt air and salt spray is not good) and very expensive to do it by helicopter. And, of course, helicopters can't get down close because they capsize the boats.
If the event can be covered from shore, there will be no excuses for not covering it.
P.S. The recent change in the way they are going to score the events is definitely not the answer.
Last edited by Mary; 12/20/05 11:41 AM.
| | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: Mary]
#63207 12/20/05 11:57 AM 12/20/05 11:57 AM |
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway Rolf_Nilsen
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Posts: 4,451 West coast of Norway | I think Mary is right, sailing is too complex for regular people without a sailing background. If it is to be popular on TV, rules and tactics need to be grossly simplified. More "crash and burn" is also required.
However, the real question is wether sailing should change to adapt to TV, or do we want to keep sailing as it is and be dropped from the olympics? I dont think we can have both in the long term..
Personally, I would prefer sailing to stay as it is, and not adapt itself to TV. I would like sailing to be for sailors, and if that means dropping out of the olympics, so be it. I dont think the increased profesionalism in the olympic classes neccesarily promotes the sport. I dont think MNA's and ISAF will have the same view, so the sport as we know it will probably change a lot in the next years. | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: scooby_simon]
#63208 12/20/05 11:58 AM 12/20/05 11:58 AM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 138 CraigO
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Posts: 138 | But how exciting is sail distance racing to watch live? Not many lead changes take place. Over the course of a 6 or 8 hour Tybee leg, the lead doesn't change more than 2 or 3 times (usually not that much) and I think you wouldn't gain a whole lot of interest unless you cram a LOT of racing into a 30 minute clip. X squillion people watch F1 and there are no lead changes ! That's why F1 Sucks......it's BORING!!!! I have sailed in a Figure 8 Cat race, that was fun, and it was run close to shore so the beach lizards could watch!! | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#63209 12/20/05 12:02 PM 12/20/05 12:02 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... scooby_simon Hull Flying, Snow Sliding.... |
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Posts: 3,528 Looking for a Job, I got credi... | Have lots of fast reaching and lots of crowded, crash-and-burn mark roundings. Forget all the nuances of rules and tactics -- just pure boat speed and excitement. Have a crowded starting line with a reaching start and a short reach to the first rounding mark, so everybody gets there together, just like motocross. Problem with the crash+burn racing (and damage) is that people spend ages tuning their boats before the ollies; so who is going to finance the extra costs (IOC trying to reduce costs) of the sailors bring (maybe) 5 boats and 10 masts with them...(and having to spend the extra time ensuring that all 5 boats are set up exactly the same). Also, people will get hurt! In motocross you just take another bike of the back of the trailer......
F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD I also talk sport here | | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: Rolf_Nilsen]
#63210 12/20/05 01:02 PM 12/20/05 01:02 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | The current ISAF policy is to gradually make Olimpic sailing more TV/spectator friendly. That was the reason for adopting the 49er, for requesting the Tornado modifications and (right or wrong) for the new scoring system. I wonder when they will replace the Finn by foiled Moths for the same reason.
Anyway, the current policy makes olimpic sailing gradually more different from sailing in general. If the policy is not changed, olimpic sailing will be so distant from normal sailing that its format, scoring, classes and even its existence will make no difference for the rest of the sport.
Luiz
Luiz
| | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: BobG]
#63211 12/20/05 01:37 PM 12/20/05 01:37 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 105 Bloomington, IN jbecker
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Posts: 105 Bloomington, IN | I think it's a mistake to conclude that because the general public does not understand sailing, that sailing must be dumbed down. Improved coverage techniques and skilled commentators could go a long way towards explaining enough of what is going on to make the sport accessible to the uninitiated. Pretty much every sport becomes more interesting the more you know about it. Sailing is no different. There are plenty of inherently boring and/or ridiculously complex sports that have huge followings. Sailing starts from a more tenable position than many of them.
One thing about racing in general is if you don't know anything about the participants, it's difficult to care about who wins the race. How many Americans followed the Tour de France before Lance Armstrong? For Americans to be interested in sailing would seem to require some pre-Olympic coverage of the medal contenders. Ever seen any of that outside of sailing mags?
Jeff Tiger 849
| | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: Luiz]
#63212 12/20/05 01:39 PM 12/20/05 01:39 PM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | Have lots of fast reaching and lots of crowded, crash-and-burn mark roundings. Yea, now we're talkin'! In motocross you just take another bike of the back of the trailer...... C'mon, they're not "crate" bikes, they tweak and tune just like you and me. However, the real question is wether sailing should change to adapt to TV, or do we want to keep sailing as it is and be dropped from the olympics? I've experienced the change in racing from the 80's to now. Has it improved? the current policy makes olimpic sailing gradually more different from sailing in general. Why? C'mon out and race, but oh...BTW, it wont quite be like Olympic sailing on TV, and pass this 20 page rules exam or we'll run your a#$ off the water!
John H16, H14
| | | Re: Should Sailing be Yanked from the Olympics?
[Re: _flatlander_]
#63214 12/20/05 04:02 PM 12/20/05 04:02 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | While we are at it why don't we spice up chess tournaments. Half naked Hooter’s girls can only play the tournaments and of course we will dumb it down so Bubba and Cleatus can follow it.
Dumbing down the sport of sailboat racing is wrong. There are plenty of other sports available that require very little grey matter, why do you want to make the sport of sailboat racing just like them? This so called complexity of the game is a big plus for me, not only is it physically demanding you actually have to think!
I don't play this game for the spectators. If I wanted to do that I would have bought a POS 84' Monte Carlo and gone down to the local dirt track.
Sailing is a giant pain the butt and probably always will be. It's time consuming and can get quite expensive. That's what is keeping the masses away. All the media exposure on the plant isn't going to change that. As for simplifying the rules... it's not like all that many racers know the rules anyway. Heck, how many actually own a rulebook?
As for the sport being dropped from the Olympics… In my opinion, the current world championships do a good job determining our top teams. I’m fine with it.
Dave
Last edited by dingram; 12/20/05 04:09 PM.
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
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