I think this would be a interesting discussion. I am pondering on this thought right now and I would like to read what others think.

Is there a future in beach cat sailing? Apart from H16, F16, F18 and A cats; is there a true market for beach cats?
Are there any sailors that just enjoy sailing and NOT racing?

To me it seems like the formula classes attract those who love racing. What ever happened with Hobie Waves? Do regular folks purchase them? Or are they purchased only at ocean front hotel/resorts? How about the Gateways? I have never seen one other than at hotels.

Prindles, ARC, Supercats are these still in production?
Homebuilders? Is there anyone out there still building home project boats?

How about those boats that are considered "exotics" M20s, did the M18 ever get into production? Or how about the ghostly CFR20? I only saw ONE at 2005 tradewinds. How about the Eagle 20? Is even the I20 going to die out eventually? Or will the Tybee 500 keep this class alive and healthy? What will happen if the Tybee 500 migrates over into F18s?

I guess my post will mostly apply to the US. Seems like we are a dying class of sailors apart from the people who enjoy racing. F16s, F18s and A cats are on the rise, are all the others dieing or just being recycled?

I have also noticed that “open” classes are getting smaller and all others are getting bigger. This is the main reason behind my questions. How do you see it today and how do you think it will be in the future. I have only been sailing beach cats for three years now. I am fairly new and this is how I am seeing our situation.

Robi,
Just a quick plug for us non racers. I single hand a H16 and am currently rigging my Tornado single handed as well. I've been a fanatical cat sailor for 5-6 years now, read all the mags, bought all the books... Feel the need-for-speed each and every day out on the lake. Only take out H16 in 15-25 knt days, small craft warnings, etc. Nothin' better than choosing a slo-mo monohull somewhere on the lake and chasing him down, buzzing across his stern (safe distance) then choose another "prey" on the lake. I try and apply all I have learned and strive to learn as much as possible regarding sailing and going as fast as possible.
I have a few friends here who are in the same situation. Too busy to regualarly attend club or local races but still enjoy the thrill of "doing it right". Of course, I'm never one to pass up an opportunity to go head-to-head wtih the various cats around the Montreal area as well. We have a good mix of Hobies, Mysteres, Prindles, Nacras, Tornados, etc. On a 5 to 15 knt weekend day, you'll see 6 to 12 cats buzzing around Lake St Louis.
Yes I think there's a future for cat sailing for non racers. Those who enjoy water and speed and want soemthing different than boarding or kites. Lots of 40-50 year old boomers out there who enjoy the need for speed.

Cheers

Ron

I did some market surveys a couple of years back and was shocked to find what a distorted view I had about the popularity of Cats. Its very easy to get a distorted view of the beachcat situation from this forum or from sailing in a catamaran dominated club.

I have personally never seen an F16, or an A cat. My club is almost exclusively Hobie 16 with a couple of Tigers. Perhaps they don't really exist and are just the result of some internet hoaxer with photoshop like Bigfoot or Nessie.

But seriously when you compare them to jetski's or dinghy's they are an endangered species. A pretty everage new plastic dinghy will sell 500 a year no problem. I wish we could point to a single cat that could get anywhere near that.

Gareth

I'll add to that list, have never seen a N6.0, I20, or Tornado, we saw one Tiger and two FX-1's last year (in Wichita, Lake Cheney).

We're banding with the mono/centerboard fleet/s to develop a "Sail Powered Only" launching and storage facility, with docks (for them) and beach (for us) and they're damn glad to have us on board. They are just as concerned about the future as you/we are.

Our site will be similar to Lake Cheney, without the big boat docks or the clubhouse, see "lagoon" on the right.

web page

BTW, the federal matching fund program for development of state parks is an awesome tool. We need to make it easy do get in and out, in a common gathering place and not be caught up in what the "other guy" is sailing for all of us to survive.

I have yet to actually see an F16 also (I think it is just an internet hoax).
Have seen plenty of As Hobie 16s and Tigers.

grob..

Where do people PUT these dinghy's... My guess is they are going into clubs where people get the social activities with a sailing venue and mast up storage

Mark

I dont know if dying, but definitively there are fewer members each year. If you also look at the demographics there are few teens (at least where I sail). One reason may be there a lot more choices now and since the advent of the personal watercraft (water rats as I refer to them) the need for speed can be fulfilled with less or about equal amount of $$$ with a much smaller learning curve.

I am a recent convert to catamarans and immensely enjoy my Prindle 19. I sail with a group of friends (P19 & TheMightyHobie18) recreationally single handed or teaming when winds are in the teens. We are in our mid 40s to mid 50s.

Hobie Beach were we sail used to have plenty of catamarans, in the 80's. Now most people there dont know what a Hobie is.

I have sailed cats in the UK for 20 years now and from time to time get similar frustration with the lack of exposure that cat sailing gets at the expense of mono-thingies.
I have found the cure!
Take a trip to the Northsea coast of Holland. every costal town has a beach club and all of these have over 100 cats of all shapes and sizes that are just there for recreational sailing. They have lots of serious racers too but most of them live on trailers and travel around all the time.
All this with hardly a mono in sight!.
If you ever get the chance, go to the Round Texel race. If these beach club racers only do one away event a year it is this one. Add these guys to the full time racers and you get 800 cats all launching at once. Trully a big shot in the arm for any cat fan
Keep the faith

Paul

Hi Robi

You can count me as one who loves to sail but has little interest in racing.
After dealing with the competitiveness in just about every aspect of life, I want to have fun on the water. I try to do my boating (both sail and power) on the week days whenever possible because it allows me to interact with nature not more people.

I think catamaran sailing, and sailing in general for that matter, is not more popular because of several things. 1) It takes effort to learn, and a lot of people today are living in fast forward…they would rather jump on a PWC, turn the key and get instant gratification.
2) Most of the new cats + trailer+ beach wheels are 15- 20K. That is a lot of money to put into a toy unless pretty much all you do is sail, or you have a large disposable income. A few months ago I Spent 20K on a brand new powerboat instead of a new cat…why? Because it affords me many options, Cruising, Fishing (inshore and offshore, my wife’s favorite past time), it will pull a skier or water toy, etc. With the new 4 stroke technology you can hardly tell if the motor is running it’s so quite, and the 2 cycle stink is gone too.
3) Most new cats are either low tech/low performance roto-mold types or high dollar and race oriented. Why should someone spend 15 to 20K for a new boat when they can pick up a cat in good condition from the dead boat society for 20-30% of the cost of a new one? Some of these boats are fast enough to finish just minuets behind some of the latest and greatest…some of these old dogs still win on occasion against the best of the new (Bill & Eric Roberts on an old beat Supercat 20 for instance). Most of these owners I would suspect love to sail as much as anyone, they just view sailing as one aspect of their lives rather than the driving force in their recreational life. If I am not racing…how much more fun would I have by sailing a F18 for $15,000 + over my 1992 Supercat 17 with an upgraded sail plan? If I spend 5 times as much is that going to give me 5 times the fun when free sailing? Don’t think so…

As far as the F-16’s…I am here to say I have seen the Blade F16 in the flesh and it is one beautiful design (Awesome job Phil) and Vectorworks does it proud with outstanding build quality. It does exist…as well as the Taipan 4.9, I have seen a couple of those too. They are real!...and real nice!

I believe it all comes down to personality types…some are the happiest when they are in the front of a 100 boat fleet…others are the happiest when they are the only boat on the water. Which is better depends on who you ask.

From a business standpoint the Catamaran industry as a whole, is as clueless as it gets. You have a whole industry basically ignoring the general population to focus on what boils down to a select handful of racing enthusiast. Put this in perspective, out of the Hundreds of Millions of people on the planet how many thousands actually race catamarans on a regular basis?…It’s like if Ford and Chevy concentrated all their energy on NASCAR and ignored the millions of people who drive cars everyday for general transportation. And they wonder why they barely stay in business. Duh!

Regards,
Bob

I'd be happy to take you for a sail any time--PM me if you're interested.

Let me preface this by saying that I sail leadmines but I'm intigued by the simplicity and speed of catamarans.
The question that also should be asked is why are skiffs gaining so much popularity while catamarans numbers are still flat? Both types of boats should appeal to the same type of people and the costs are close. What can we do to pull people away from skiffs?

While I agree with most of your post, this is just plain wrong. HCUSA is in the business of strictly producing pleasure craft now. Other than the H16, they do not produce a single "race" boat anymore.

At the bottom of the hill where I live in West Maui is an area known as Prindle Beach. Apparently is was the place to both keep and sail cats on Maui. When we bought the house almost six years ago there were a few cats still there but most appeared to be abandoned.

The people who owned homes or lots along the beach eventually had the boats removed. I heard one story where a cat owner was going to leave his boat overnight and was confronted by a homeowner who told him he’d have the boat cut up and dragged off. The homey seemed to be unaware of the concept of public beaches.

Currently there are few beach cats on Maui. There’s one guy from the other side (jollyrogers on this board) who sails both sides of the island. A part time neighbor has a Nacra that I’ve never seen leave his driveway. The owner of Shangri-La, a 50-foot charter cat has an I20 for sale as he never has time to use it. There are probably a few more.

My wife saw someone try to launch a Getaway at the local ramp. He tried to step the mast in the water a couple of times and finally gave up. I wish I had been there to help him out and get him involved in expanding cat sailing.

The local dealer is, primarily, a powerboat joint that has a few Waves that the hotels buy for rentals. I contacted them first about buying an H20 and was told they wanted $20,000 plus $4,000 for shipping. And that was IF they decided that they would allow me to buy a boat from them. I worked with my mainland dealer who has a much more realistic concept of pricing and how to work with customers.

On top of all the dying beach cat news, the Lahaina marine and fishing store closed down last month. West Marine via the Internet is my primary source for stuff now.

Bottom line, it appears that beach cat sailing has effectively died on Maui. It’s really too bad as there’s a huge channel out there with nearly year ‘round consistent trade winds of 10 to 25 mph and 80 degree water.

Where I sail most, Aurora Reservoir near Denver, the dry storage lot is predominately catamarans. There may be three to four dozen. Most look badly neglected. The most I have seen out on a nice weekend day is about six. According to the local Hobie Fleet Commodore, I have the first Tiger in Colorado. I bought it used and plan to continue to sail recreationally. Racing in this region generally involves long drives and camping, neither of which I find appealing. I'll try to make it to a few fleet events and share the fun a bit.

On most of the reservoirs in the area, which tend to be rather small, it's a constant battle with powerboaters and jet skiers who create a formidable chop. Aurora Res does not allow powerboats, which makes sailing there a pleasure. From what I've been reading on this forum over the last couple of years, the availability of decent venues for beach cats is part of the problem. It's not just about the boat, it's about the overall experience, and convenient access to a pleasant body of water seems to be becoming more difficult.

To add to Seeker's comments;
1. sailing in general will always be a small water sport compared to motorboating (of all types). It has too high a learning curve for most people here in the US.
2. Dinghys will always outsell cats. Simpler to rig, can take more people out. Seats instead of "lounging" on a tramp. PLaces to store gear, food and drink. It all adds up to a more relaxed, easier to enjoy time on the water, even though they are slow.
3. Mast up storage is key. Lord knows, I'm getting tired of trailering to a launch, rigging, sailing for half a day, then unrigging and trailering back home. We joke about the rig to sail time ratio, but it wears on you when its out of balance. Beach cats also require more room to store. There is a local dinghy sailing club that accepted A cats, but wouldn't consider other cats. The A cats are narrow enough to fit into their alloted dinghy spaces, where the 8' wide cats are just a little too wide. This issue may be fairly prevalent.
4. In the end, fast can be more intimidating than exhilarating for many people. Cats take up more room, can be harder to rig and generally don't have convenient homes where they can be kept, ready to sail.
5. Working with dinghy groups is an obvious measure to help maintain beach cat's viability, especially around the access issues. Even putting us all together, we still don't come any where near motorboat numbers.

DavidN
H20 781

I agree with Mike. We have been coming to Maui since 1970, and the beach cat sailing is nearly dead here. Just two Waves and a Getaway available in south west Maui, at the Grand Wailea, and you have to stay there to rent them. Some of the most beautiful sailing conditions we have ever seen, going unused. There are a few cats on the beach, but in the last five weeks here, none have ventured out.

As to sailing back in the Northwest, it is growing strong. See www.sailsandpoint.org Our Hobie Waves continue to be the most popular boats in Open Sailing.

Hobie, like most successfull companys contiunues to built products the consumer want to buy. (US Car Builders could learn by following this example). They still build the Hobie 16, Hobie 17 and Hobie 20 for the people that want the fiberglass boat, some, but not all are for racers. The Wave, Bravo, Getaway and future rotomold boats are built for the rest of the growing market.

We now see the beaches lined with the newer Hobie products in the Northwest. Part of the reason for this growth is the support our local Hobie Cat Dealer, Hobie Cats Northwest gives to our Hobie Cat Fleets, and local sailing groups in addition to Sail Sand Point.

Caleb

I truly feel sorry for those sailors on all the coasts and all the stories I've read of venue after venue taken away. Take advantage and explore all posibilties of entrenching yourselves in a State Park...somewhere. Once you're there how can they take it away. You can say, "It would be nice if" or "We'd sail more often if", get involved and do something about it. Ask for help. You'd be amazed at who knows who, or who knows what about this or that. Take steps ask questions and you'll find progress. I believe the key is (as said before) mast up storage. Hell we've got mast up already (and cheap) and we're now going for it right at the waters edge, to be able to hand dolly boats to the water. Have to make it as close to turning the key on a powered craft as possible.

Agreed the Wave/Getaway are good entry boats. I really like the rental/standard/F16 G-Cat...very intriging.

If it wasn't so cold and wet I might be tempted to move back.

Here on Big Marine Lake, the cat sailing has been limited, but steady for decades. For the residents, it ALL about recreational sailing. Mostly Hobies, with the rare Taft, Prindle, Super Cat and Nacra thrown in.

The local Hobie Fleet from Bald Eagle Lake, used to have their summer regatta on Big Marine, but they lost their beach spot when the County Park bought the residences that let the Fleet use their beach. Hopefully, when the County develops the park, the regatta will be allowed back.

Just last year, another H-16 started sailing the lake. So, to sum it up, the popularity of cats here is "steady as she goes."

MauganH17 I will agree on the fact that HCUSA is producing mainly (or strictly as you say) recreational pleasure craft…But here’s the problem as I see it. The original Hobie 14 and 16 had a mystique about them…in their day they were perceived as radical…cutting edge…back in the 70’s you might say Hobie Cat Sailing was considered an Extreme Sport. It was marketed brilliantly by Hobie Alter and “Have a Hobie Day” was not just a catchy slogan, it defined a lifestyle. He was already deeply embedded in the Surf Culture long before he came out with a boat…and the Hobie Cat was a natural extension of that life style because the original boat was basically another surf toy. Quickly the emphasis moved from surf play to racing. When you free sail you are always a winner, even a big wipe out and equipment damage can carry bragging rights on the beach. Racing has a whole different vibe; it’s about winning…overcoming your opponent…

Back to the boats…I don’t want to offend anyone but lets be honest the Recreational boats coming out of HCUSA are not going to get the person that envisions himself as Extreme sports guy off a Kite Board/Sailboard or PWC and onto one of their plastic creations. The original Hobie’s had the mystique of being radical while being pretty basic. No one seems to be able to catch that magic again.

There is more competition for the same recreational dollars. For About $11,000 you can get a Seadoo PWC that goes an Honest to God 70 MPH. For the cost of a Hobie Wave you can buy a Windsurfer that an experienced rider can take down to the beach and do 40 MPH right out of the box (with an hour of Sail/Fin/Foot strap tweaking) in the right wind conditions. A Kite boarder can put all his gear in the trunk of a compact car and can buy a new board and a small quiver of kites for near that amount too. Getting jumps as high as the HC Wave's mast.

Regards,
Bob