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"Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* #70145
03/25/06 07:05 PM
03/25/06 07:05 PM
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US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline OP
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hobiegary  Offline OP
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How do you keep your catamaran still, keep her from capsizing, without having to tend the sheets and tillers?

I have seen bits and pieces of this information, over the years. It is high time to bring all of our collective (wisdom?) experience together to answer the question:
"How do you keep the catamaran in one place, without having to manhandle her?"

Some common terms include:
Heave to
Hove to
Park
Parking
Parked
Planted, In Irons (me )
Lay a hull
Laying a hull
laying in the hull

Please tell your thoughts on this subject. I see three things being accomplished when parked. Foremost is to prevent capsize. Then, second is to keep the boat from falling off the wind and running away from the present location. Finally, you want to keep the boat in the same approximate spot. All of this, we want to accomplish without having to tend the controls.

I have heard of a few ways to do it. I have practiced two, maybe three of them.

I have "hove to" (accomplished by "heaving to") by filling the main and the jib on opposite tacks from one another. The result is a boat that firmly remains at a certain angle to the wind and drifts downwind, about 45º off of the wind.

I have actually stood up on my boom, rested my shoulders against my main sail, and spectated some racing while my catamaran was in this "hove to" situation.

I must be able to stop my boat in any number of conditions, so I must use a method that works with no jib present, when cat rigged. The method I use is something that I call "planted in irons." I can't honestly remember where I got this idea and it seems to me that I discovered it on my own.

Even if I did discover it on my own, I am certain that I am not the original inventor. I just worked this system out for myself and I must say that it was hectic and scary to learn it.

Here it is: Planting the cat in irons.

Furl the jib. Sheet the mainsail as hard as you dare. Center the traveler. Affix the tillers all the say over to one side or the other; either tack. I stuff my tiller extension stick under my hiking straps to jamb it into an immovable position. What follows will make your gut become tense and may even make your butt constrict. (butt pucker)

The inflated mainsail will pull the stern of the boat toward weather (weather helm) until the luff (mast) of the main sail will cross the eye of the wind. Then the mainsail will invert and fill on the opposite tack. As the weather helm pushes the sterns in the opposite direction, the locked rudders will force the sterns to move backwards over the water away from the wind and this will cause the mast to once again tack across the eye of the wind. Now the sail will fill on the original tack and will move the boat forward over the water, enough to turn the cat through the wind again.

The cycle will repeat again and again. The cat will always remain within a few degrees of "dead up wind." The sail will oscillate from one tack to the other and back again. The cat's movement over the ground will be somewhat "dead down wind."

Please tell us how YOU park YOUR cat!

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: hobiegary] #70146
03/26/06 03:43 AM
03/26/06 03:43 AM
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West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
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Parking by sheeting in the jib, letting main-traveller all the way out and loosening the mainsheet. Push tiller away from you. Boat will drift very slowly sideways. Standard starting procedure stuff..

Never sailed (or at least, parked) without the jib.

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #70147
03/26/06 06:15 AM
03/26/06 06:15 AM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Same thing without the jib: Main way out and tiller hard over to leeward. The boat will tend to keep oscillating a little away from the wind and toward the wind, but will stay on the same tack (unless there is a MAJOR wind shift).

If you are parked in this way, whether with or without jib, and if you need to stay parked but get onto the other tack (like if you are about to go on the rocks and need to drift the opposite direction), you do the "dime tack" as described in Hobie U:

DIME TACK (Performed when the boat is stationary or moving very slowly.)
1. Push the tiller hard over as if to turn the boat up into the wind.
2. Grasp the boom or main sheet blocks and pull it to weather until the boat is tacked.
3. Reverse the rudders when the boat moves backwards.
4. Release the sheets leaving the sails loose. You are now in the Safety Position on the other tack.

Gary's technique of sheeting the main in tight and keeping the tiller hard over, and oscillating between port and starboard tacks, may work when you are out in the middle of nowhere, but when you are in the midst of a lot of other boats, you want to park in such a way that you stay on the same tack, usually starboard so you have some rights even though you are parked.

Also, with Gary's technique of keeping the tiller secured to one side with the main in tight, if there is a MAJOR wind shift which switches the boat to the other tack, the boat could capsize. That won't happen if you use the main-out technique.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70148
03/26/06 06:47 AM
03/26/06 06:47 AM
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Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
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Spot on, Mary.

Main out, traveller out, downhaul released, rudder hard over. Boat is in a stable, safe attitude.

This is not the case with Gary's method.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #70149
03/26/06 12:18 PM
03/26/06 12:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
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US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline OP
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I want to correct my statement about driving 45º backward off of the wind when hove to. As Rolf indicated you drift sideways. I just checked a record I had of a time when I set a Prindle 19 in a heave to position in 13 knots wind with 2 foot seas. Over the ground, the boat went about 90º to the wind at a speed of 0.8 knots. It moved in a directoin toward the windward side of the main.

I'll have to try it without a jib and see what the results are.

Here is a link to a video that shows how to heave to. One thing not shown that I usually do is to slowly sheet in the mainsail, once the bows begin to blow off of the wind, to the point where I get the balance, attitude that I want.
"Heaving to" video

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: hobiegary] #70150
03/26/06 01:15 PM
03/26/06 01:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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When hove to, I can confirm that you go sideways, but "drift" is not really the right word. Rick and I hove to one time on a Hobie 18 (or maybe it was the Nacra 6.0) when we were waiting around for a regatta to start. The boat went very aggressively and rapidly sideways, pushing a lot of water and with a lot of noise and turbulence. I was very surprised, because I always thought heaving to was supposed to be a very peaceful situation.

I would like to know if other people have "hove to" in catamarans and exactly how they did it. The only thing I have found in a quick search is that you center the helm, sheet in the after sail, and sheet the foresail on the wrong side.

To me it seems like a balancing act -- you have to have the right combination of sail area, both fore and aft, to keep the boat headed into the waves and just off the wind enough so it will not tack.

I don't know whether you can heave to with main only -- unless some combination of sail trim and rudder angle. Just doesn't seem like the right balance. Anybody?

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70151
03/26/06 02:50 PM
03/26/06 02:50 PM
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Posts: 49
Israel, Sdot Yam
Opher Offline
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We routinely heave to with our N6.0. From close hauled, sheet the jib over on the windward side, main sheeted and travelled in, helm usually pushed right over. She stays relatively stationary, crawling slowly forward, pointing as if sailing normally to windward. Occasionally she drifts backwards, which requires reversing the tiller. Calm and simple. To start sailing, simply sheet the jib over, straighten the tiller and off you fly.


Opher
Nacra F20C ISR1
F18 Cirrus ISR2
Sdot Yam, ISRAEL
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Opher] #70152
03/26/06 03:23 PM
03/26/06 03:23 PM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Sorry, but I don't get the part about occasionally having to reverse the rudder. That, to me, indicates that it is not truly hove to and that the sail balance is not right, and I still think that when you are hove to, the rudder is supposed to be centered.

On a cruising boat, when you heave to, to ride out a storm, you set it and forget it and go below and eat and sleep, for hours or days, and don't worry about having to do something like go topside to reverse the helm. Seems like it would be dangerous to have the helm set to one side or the other, in case the boat accidentally gets tossed onto the other tack. Doom!

Again, I am still looking for more guidance on this, because I may be completely wrong. I know somebody out there has experience with heaving to on big boats, and the same principles would apply to small boats.

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70153
03/26/06 04:14 PM
03/26/06 04:14 PM
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North Carolina
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When I heave to on my Catboat (monohull) I pull up the centerboard, let the main all the way out and tie the tiller to the lee side. The boat drifts slowly downwind. In my Hobie 16, I center both the jib and the main and kick up a rudder part way. The boat will have strong weather helm from the kicked up rudder and turn into the wind and come about. It then does the same thing on the other tack and basically does S turns into the wind. I don't think I could apply the catboat method since the H-16 has no centerboard to raise and won't slide sideways.

I have done this in light winds with no problem. It is especially handy when it gets hot and I want to get in the water to cool off. I am not sure how it would work in heavy wind.

Howard

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70154
03/27/06 01:50 PM
03/27/06 01:50 PM
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US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline OP
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Okay, I did a couple of tests yesterday. First I hove-to inside the harbor in light wind. I set the main on port tack, the jib was sheeted to the port side (backwinded) and the rudder was locked into the hard-a-lee position, shoved all the way to the starboard side. I kept the traveler centered and then just sheeted in enough to keep the bows into the wind. Without the mainsheet tensioned the boat would do a lot more oscillating and moving around in general. Using the mainsail as much as possible, without allowing it to force a tack, decreases the amount of windward ground lost.

The result was movement of about 1 knot, approximately 90º to the wind, toward the lee side, the starboard side. So I conclude that in calm water with light wind, I can park while maintaining my windward progress.

Interesting that I have past data showing the boat moving 90º toward the windward side of the mainsail but this time it was toward the lee side of the mainsail. I suspect that I had the tillers unbound on that past test, or possibly I was actively steering while parked. I can't recall for sure. It is likely that the waves in the ocean were the variable that made the difference.

Regarding Mary's remark:
Quote
Seems like it would be dangerous to have the helm set to one side or the other, in case the boat accidentally gets tossed onto the other tack. Doom!

While this tossed boat would take off running on it's new tack, with a cleated jib, it still may have a chance of turning upwind again on its lashed rudder. It this were to happen with an unlashed rudder, wouldn't she just run and run downwind?

The movie in the link that I previously posted does show that the tiller is "tied" hard over. Video

I guess if the main were trimmed, and the traveler centered, then the boat tossed onto the other tack (with rudders relaxed) would round up, tack, and place itself back into hove-to position. But if the main were not trimmed fairly tight, that cat would run!

I see argument for heaving-to with rudders relaxed, but I can tell you that doing it with rudders lashed is much easier and requires much less finicky balancing between sails.

Yesterday I did a second test in the ocean on fairly calm waters with wind in the 7 knot range. This test had three parts. First I hove-to with both sails, then with main only with the mainsail inverted, then main only, non-inverted, with me standing on the boom. Yes, standing on the boom.

I just eased the sheet, shot the boat upwind, left the traveler centered, pulled the jib over to the wrong side, and tied the rudders over to the lee side. Once she settled down to a stop, I sheeted the main just enough to keep things from flopping around too much.

I drifted (over the ground as observed on gps track record) about 135º away from the wind (45º backward) at 2 knots. Keep in mind that I have waves pushing me and that is what I would attribute my loss of windward progress to. The drift direction was toward the windward side of the boat. Opposite of what she did in the harbor.

Next I furled the jib. This required me to ease the mainsheet quite a lot. The mainsail filled backwards and the boat was content, staying put. Now my movement over the ground was again at 2 knots but my leeward loss was less and I was now moving about 125º off the wind or 35º backward. The mainsail was filled backwards and the drift (not draft) was toward the lee side of the boat.

Next I stepped up onto the boom and this forced the sail to invert to a normal fill, to cradle me, where the convex side (draft) is on the lee side of the boat. My drift angle increased back to 45º backward, but my speed reduced to 1 knot.

There is some potential error or exaggeration to my speed readings as I am taking average speeds over periods of 30 seconds to a few minutes and my GPS program is rounding to the nearest full knot.

Now moving on to another of Mary's comments:
Quote
Gary's technique of sheeting the main in tight and keeping the tiller hard over, and oscillating between port and starboard tacks, may work when you are out in the middle of nowhere, but when you are in the midst of a lot of other boats, you want to park in such a way that you stay on the same tack, usually starboard so you have some rights even though you are parked.

Also, with Gary's technique of keeping the tiller secured to one side with the main in tight, if there is a MAJOR wind shift which switches the boat to the other tack, the boat could capsize. That won't happen if you use the main-out technique.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


Well I won't say that you won't capsize. This is a cat, she'll always find a way! But I have not had that happen yet. I don't get major wind shifts, thank God! And yes, you need space to do this maneuver because you'll drift DDW. Or at least I did but, I must attribute much of my drift to sea currents (25 miles off shore) and waves (10-12 footers at the time). The waves are the exact reason to use the "planted in irons" technique. If I had been on a typical hove-to position, my bows would have been averaging about 45º off the wind. This places the cat in jeopardy of being tumbled sideways over its beam by a large wave. While planted in irons, the bows average 0º to the wind.

Now check this out. No exaggeration here and Bill Mattson is my witness, crew to authenticate the following:

In a wind funnel portion of the Santa Barbara Channel the channel , known as Windy Lane, we had been sailing for about 7 hours without a biology break; no nourishment, no potty break. For the past 3 hours we had been beating up windy lane, 25 miles off shore, in seas that had become 10' with the occasional 12 footers for the past 3 hours. The wind was blowing 25+ and we wanted to continue beating for another couple of hours. To use the head, we would have to strip off our pfd's, trap harnesses, spray suits. Bill also had a wet suit on under the spray suit.

We stopped the boat long enough to do this and to grab a bit of nourishment and a bottle of juice. We drifted downwind 1/4 mile but our bows launched squarely over each wave. The boat was stable enough to stand on it, as long as you held on to a shroud for dear life.

Watching a tight mainsail invert in 25 knots winds with 10' seas while planted in irons makes you pucker. I get butterflies in my stomach just remembering it. But it works!

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: hobiegary] #70155
03/27/06 04:41 PM
03/27/06 04:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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From what I have read by the experts, in heaving to, the idea is to set everything so the boat sails slowly upwind, won’t tack, won’t fall off downwind, and basically sails itself. You sheet the jib to the wrong side (or tack the boat without releasing the jib), lash the helm to center and set the main (including traveler and sheet), so that the boat makes slow forward progress to windward on a close reach angle toward the wind and waves.

Theoretically, you should be able to balance the sails to accomplish this even if you don’t have a rudder at all. That's a good project for your next test.

Thank you for sharing the results of your experimentation. It is very interesting.
However, heaving to is not the same thing as "parking," so we have to be careful not to get people confused about the two.

What you are doing with your tests is sort of a combination of the two -- heaving to and parking. Maybe you will come up with a combination that works better for multihulls even though it is different from what is used by monohulls and taught in all the seamanship books.

I'm very serious!

Last edited by Mary; 03/27/06 06:25 PM.
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70156
03/28/06 09:10 AM
03/28/06 09:10 AM
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Mary Offline
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Gary,
I should mention that Rick disagrees with me and my theory.

He says to heave to in a cat, you DO put the tiller all the way over to leeward. The jib is backed as in the other theories, and set the main according to how high you want the boat to ride in relation to the wind and waves.

I still think that having the tiller hard over is going to keep you from progressing forward and will result in too much leeway.

We don't have a boat to experiment with right now, so I guess it's up to you to do the testing and puckering.

Last edited by Mary; 03/28/06 09:11 AM.
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70157
03/28/06 09:22 AM
03/28/06 09:22 AM
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Posts: 851
US Western Continental Shelf
hobiegary Offline OP
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Quote
What you are doing with your tests is sort of a combination of the two -- heaving to and parking. Maybe you will come up with a combination that works better for multihulls even though it is different from what is used by monohulls and taught in all the seamanship books.


Please explain the definitions of each of "heave to," and "park."

GARY


Santa Monica Bay
Mystere 6.0 "Whisk" <--- R.I.P.
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: hobiegary] #70158
03/28/06 09:34 AM
03/28/06 09:34 AM
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Atlanta
bvining Offline
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In my mind, when you "park" you hold the tiller and adjust the rudders to keep the boat "parked" - its Rick's technique, main out, travelor out, etc. The point being that the tillers not lashed, its free to be adjusted. It might be under your leg, but you can move it.

Its something you do right before a race or after a race, or while you are waiting and dont want to move. You are "parked"

Heave to is different. Heave to, is tiller lashed, riding out the storm, kind of thing.

I'm not convinced the heave to that Gary described will work or is safe, or good for your sails.

Bill

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: bvining] #70159
03/28/06 10:06 AM
03/28/06 10:06 AM
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South Carolina
Jake Offline
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It does work on catamarans although I've not been able to get it to drift foreward much - mostly sideways. It does put considerable pressure on the jib and it stays plastered on the mast and diamonds...I wouldn't do it unless I had to. However, the alternative "parking" requires attention to the tiller when in rough seas and heavy wind. Heaving to, does not require your attention on the tiller and could be useful if you have a more serious problem to attend to.


Jake Kohl
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Jake] #70160
03/28/06 10:17 AM
03/28/06 10:17 AM
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West coast of Norway
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That's what you have crew for Jake. Send them to deal with it while you tell them how to do it right

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: hobiegary] #70161
03/28/06 10:53 AM
03/28/06 10:53 AM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
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Gary,

PARKING:
My definition of "parked" is what Bill Vining has just described. The idea is to keep your boat stationary. With a catamaran you normally accomplish this by letting the main way out, having the jib in enough so it does not flog (softset), and having the tiller hard over. If there is no tide or current involved, the boat will just kind of sit in place, oscillating back and forth through about 45 degrees toward the wind and away from the wind. It kind of backs around away from the wind and then moves forward again toward the wind and then backs around away again, etc.

Meanwhile, it is also drifting in a direction that is sort of a combination of downwind and sideways. You can easily see this if you do a drill where you try to park your boat beside a mark. It is very difficult to maintain your position beside the mark even though you are "parked," because the drift will keep taking you away from it. However, when you are "parked," you are not making progress upwind, and you are the mercy of the "drift."

That is why, if you are parked and if your leeward drift is toard a hazard, like rocks, you can do the "dime tack," as described earlier in this thread, to get the boat onto the other tack so it will drift a different direction.

HEAVE TO:
The definition of "heaving to," according to all my research, is that you are NOT trying to park in one place --you are trying to set the sails and the rudder so the boat continues to sail forward, but at a very slow pace, on a close-reach angle into the wind and waves.

That is accomplished by balancing the sails and helm so the boat will continue to slog slowly forward. Normally this is done by having the jib backed and sheeted on the windward side, basically centering the helm, and then setting the main so it properly counteracts the jib and keeps the boat on a close or close-reach course into the weather. Sort of natural autopilot.

Now, having said all that, I think "parking" is something that most sloop-rigged monohulls cannot do. At least they do not seem to do it. If you are at a regatta with monohull sloops (Flying Scots, for instance), you do not see them parking. They just keep sailing back and forth all the time between races.

Maybe the reason they "heave to" in heavy wind conditions is because they are not able to park.

So the question remains for multihulls: If you are caught out in a big storm and big waves, whether a small multihull or a large one, is it preferable to park and drift or to heave to and maintain some forward progress?

Or I may be all wet about all of this. But I'm glad Gary started this particular discussion, because nobody really seems to know the answer as far as the best option for a multihull in severe conditions.




Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70162
03/28/06 11:02 AM
03/28/06 11:02 AM
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Mary Offline
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Addendum regarding heaving to:
One of the things I read said that when you heave to, it does not work well with an overlapping jib. I think they probably mean like a genoa. Duh. On monohulls you would have a small storm jib up. So, on a cat with a roller-furling jib, you would furl it to the point where it does not overlap the mast.

Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70163
03/28/06 11:17 AM
03/28/06 11:17 AM
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St. Louis, MO,
Mike Hill Offline
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Parking in a cat is really not that easy. When bigger wind and waves are present you do need to continue to steer the boat otherwise you could tack and be blown over.

On my H20 I use to park all the time with the jib on the wrong side and the main and traveler all the way out. This worked fine up to about 12 knots. After 12 knots the force on the jib alone was enough to blow you over in a good puff.

The I20 I've found is impossible to park. There is a constant need to be attentive. The boat will tack suddenly and take off if you don't have the tiller in your hand.

The Tiger while easier to park still needs to be watched as it can also take off if it tacks. I'm not sure if this is somewhat due to the self-tacking jibs on these boats?

Anyway in my experience parking is a little tougher on the high performance boats than it use to be.

Mike Hill
www.stlouiscats.com


Mike Hill
N20 #1005
Re: "Parking" stopping the catamaran, *hands free* [Re: Mary] #70164
03/28/06 12:21 PM
03/28/06 12:21 PM
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Maybe "heaving to" is not a good option for beach cats (or even big multihulls) in big winds. Maybe it is just something that works for big, heavy monohulls with keels. Rick says that heaving to with a beach cat only works in light to moderate winds.

Here is an anecdote: Rick and his son Dave were racing in the Bay to Ocean Race down at Marathon in the Florida Keys. On the ocean side of the race, within sight of the finish line, they were hit by 65 mph winds (as reported by the local Coast Guard Station).

Rick says all they could do was pinch to weather and get their weight as far forward as possible to keep the wind from getting under the tramp.

I asked if they could have "hove to," and he said, "Absolutely not. If we had sheeted the jib to the windward side, we would have blown right over backwards."

Personally, I would like to hear whether any of the people who have sailed around the world on multihulls have ever hove to while at sea -- and how they did it.

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