Hi Folks:

I have a few questions about the mainsheet systems that you are using on your 16’s. I have the old Seaway 5:1 and it’s seen better days. I want to upgrade to a new system this spring. I sail alone 90% of the time, don’t race in sanctioned events, and I have young teenagers that want to learn to sail and have not been strong enough to handle the Seaway 5:1.

Questions)

1)I have looked at 2 systems – the Harken low profile 6:1 from Catsailor (thanks Rick!) for 258.00 and the Harken Carbo Air system at $339.00. Is there a big difference between these 2 systems? I understand the more expensive system is load sensitive, and I have seen it in the store. Is it worth the extra cash?

2) I believe the 6:1, 7:1 and 8:1 systems use the same base unit (H194 or the Harken 2632) with beckets or blocks attached. Should I purchase the 7:1 or 8:1 system? (only 6 or 7 dollars more according to the adds in Catsailor?) Can you remove a pulley from a quad unit to make it a triple, or do you have to purchase a separate triple block if you want to go back to a 6:1?

Thanks!

Mac

Beckets aren't necessarily that easy to attach. You can add a block to the base of a 6:1 to make it 7:1, and probably your best option, just in case you and your kids get the idea to go check out the fun at a sanctioned event.

6:1 is all you will ever need on the 16. Going with more purchase makes it too hard to sheet out.

Get the H194 lower and the Carbo upper H2640. Standard on new Hobie 16's.

H194 Harken List: $173.25
H2640 Harken List: $85.20

We do not recommend the Carbo ratchet lower. It is a PITA to adjust the jaw angles.

Thanks Matt and John - This is exactly the info that I need.

Cheers,

Mac

how would the line run with this? I am confused because I would love to increase the purchase on my 6.0 (6.1) but don't have any beckets on the blocks now and am not interested in spending 400$ to get new blocks.

In other words, to have a convertable 6:1/7:1 the upper (triple) block would need to have a becket. Add a standup block, mounted through the hardware that attaches the main sheet cleat, to your lower block. Your cleat is on the bottom, you add the extra block on top of the "plate" that supports the cleat. You're spending for an upper triple w/becket and one small block only.

Another option is the new "carbo" triple as the upper, and instead of buying with a becket, run the tail of the main sheet through the hole in the center of the blocks and dead end, in effect same as w/becket, but maybe a few more bucks.

Matt,

Are both the ratchmatic and the ratchet carbo lowers a pain? What makes them harder to adjust? Isn't it a case of set it and forget it?

I am looking at getting the ratchmatic system with beckets on both top and bottom with tripple on top.
http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant...AR2630&Category_Code=57MMRATCHMATICS

And

http://mauriprosailing.com/Merchant...duct_Code=HAR2605&Category_Code=57MM

Thanks
Sam

I think the Ratchamatics are awesome myself and use them on every boat I have had since they came out.
On my F16 I am using the 8:1 Ratchamatic with 1/4" mainsheet. Sounds small,but with the 8:1 purchase it is easy to sheet and it also runs out very well when you ease the sheet.

I know in days of yore, we may have used as large as 7/16" line, and for sure 3/8" But with the new advanced blocks it is really not necessary and smaller line works really well.

I even use 1/4" on the Wave. Great for the puffs and when wheeling around the weather mark. Others are having to pull their sheets through the block, while mine just flys out and the sail is set within a boat length for downwind.
Rick

The jaw angle adjustment on the original ratchets is far simpler. They have not found a way to do this on the carbo version. Maybe not as big a deal if you set it and forget it, but I like to change the angle for some conditions. If it is really blowing, I may want to get the blocks to release easier, so place the jaws higher. It is personal preference. I see no advantage to the carbo lower. That is why we use the standard triple lower and carbo upper in combination.

The ratchamatic lower is a nightmare! My son had a new 16 at the Carnac Eurocat regatta last year and spent the whole event trying to get the cleats at the right angle, got all stressed about it and didn't enjoy the event at all!
We spent some time with little plastic wedges and have eventually got it right now [one setting for all winds]
For some reason, this flashy/expensive piece of kit does not hold the cleat at the right angle.

Rick, are you talking about the hexaratchet that Matt is talking about

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.showProd?B4RPMEB9Y976M0

or the ratchmatic

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?409Z56LC83P4A

or maybe something completely different like the carbo ratchet?

http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/scpdinw1.ShowProd?409Z56LC6W5AM

It seems that the breaking loads on the carbo stuff is a fair bit higher if that is of any value.


Thanks
Sam

I like the adjustments on the 194 Hexaratchet triple...

You just ease out the screw in the slot on either side. Make the adjustement up or down and re-tighten. It is easy to see you are in the 1 to whatever position.


I do not like the adjustment on the 2630 Carbo triple...


You have to back out the center screw to get both sides of the system out of its indents. You then move and re-seat the side plates. Then tighten the screw. There is no good way to see how far you moved it and it is a disaster if you unscrew the thing too far.

The 2141 would be even harder to deal with.

On the strenght end: I'm no weakling, and when it really blowing, and I've been out a long time I struggle with sheating. I have a 6:1 harken system w/ 3/8 sheat. Most of this is probably because I tend to go out in heavy winds, and it all on lakes, or the Mississippi. Lot's of puffs and I never cleat the main. Just food for thought if you concerned with the strenght issue.

Do you turn on the ratchet?

6:1 is all you need .

We have at least four women 130 and under that sail their boats in good breeze and thats all they use.

There is a good chance that you have the mast raked too for forward if you cannot sheet in.

Remember, the more purchase you have in you main block system, the more line it will take to sheet in and longer it will take to sheet out. 6:1 is a good balance between the mechanical advantage you want the the ability to sheet out in a reasonable amount of time.

Ok, the 6:1 or 7:1 is probably all you need for purchase, but what about the breaking strenght of the blocks them selves?

model h194

Shackle pin dia. (in) 1/4
SWL (lb) 500
Breaking strength (lb) 2000
Use with 004 - 5:1 / 048 - 6:1

verses the h2630 at
SWL (lb) 1800
Breaking strength (lb) 4500
Holding power w/180 degree wrap 50 lb (23 kg) 10:1

I assume the SWL is the swivle breaking strenght?

Is this an issue on a h16?

Sam

No

SWL = sustained working load if I remember correctly. You can really put the blocks under these loads and over whithout worrying about breaking them. Maximum breaking loads are typically alot higher. If passed swl you'll just wear the blocks down quicker which is still many many years. In effect SWL doesn't mean much.

Wouter

Safe working load limit is more precise but the concept is the same. The 2000 lb breaking point has been derated by a factor of 4 to give you a "safe" capacity of 500 lbs.

What I have yet to figure out is if I could lift an 80 pound sack of cement with just a line in my hand. If I can, then a 7:1 would exceed the swl but still come nowhere near the breaking strength.