Ok - so what are most of you using for a mainsheet - I've read 1/4", 3/8" and 7/16". I have 7/16, but if I buy a 194 with a 2640 upper block the max line size is 3/8". Will the 3/8 line run through the 2640 freely? What line type do you recommend for the average sailor?

I'll throw another size in, we just purchased a 5/16" main sheet. Use a line designed specifically for main sheets. Some of the low stretch (stiff) lines will not wrap around a smaller diameter block as easily as a softer version. In other words it is too stiff to properly grip the blocks. I think you'll find the advantage of easier use in reducing diameter only. Be very careful (or ask an expert/retailer) before purchasing a "high tech" line.

Sorry for no "specific" answer, there are a lot of different brands and "families" available.

3/8" is the standard line on new Hobie 16s. It runs through the 194/2640 well. Smaller is harder to hold. As mentioned by "flatlander18", get a line designed for sheets. Usually a dacron (fuzzy) line is easiest to hold for less overall fatigue.

You can turn off the ratchet? You mean on one of these?

Yeah, it's the little black slide on the side.

Mainsheets:

New England Ropes - Salsa line

New England Ropes
8 mm = 5/16"; 9 mm = 3/8"

Maffioli Swiftcord


You can buy this in a number of places, but Hall Spars USA is the US distributor. Hall Spars

OK Rick and Matt - does the 2630 have more holding power than the 194 with the ratchet on? I keep reading about it having a 10:1 holding power. The same with the upper blocks -2640 vs the 153 - the 2640 looks lighter with a lower profile, but is there any difference in the holding power of these blocks?

Ratchets have always had an on and off switch. Generally you use the ratchet in higher winds. You turn it off for better sensitivity in lighter air. If you are sitting on the rail, the sheets may not pay out fast enough, so you turn it off. In higher winds the ratchet helps hold the sheet, but still pays out if you let it go.

I don't think there is a difference between one Harken ratchet and the next model, but more purchase will have more "holding power".

Just to clarify, when you have a 6:1 purchase if you pull on the line with 100 lbs of force the system exerts 600 lbs of force on the sail. I know this is obvious but you never know questions people will not ask.

So, the "holding power" everyone speaks of is really what you feel on the line.

Also, the shape of the first pulley the line goes into will determine how much tension you need to keep on the sheet to hold it into place with the ratchet. As well as the torque the ratchet mechanism is rated for. I know on my system (I don't know the part numbers) the first pully "grabs" the line a little bit so I only need to keep enough tension on the line to seat it in the pulley when the ratchet is on.

I just wnated to make sure everyone is talking about the same thing.

Thanks Matt and Nick - Let's say you are out on the wire in a blow. Will the carbo unit (2629) be easier on the arms in terms of holding the sheet and not cleating in, than the Hexa (194) block? Harken claims the carbo has 10:1 holding power @ 180 degree wrap. I haven't seen any claims for the 194, but it may just be a marketing ploy for the newer carbo blocks.

As far as I know, the design of the ratchet sheave is unchanged, so the "holding power" of the sheave should be the same. The benifit to an increased hold would be up for debate and personal preference... not critical. The difference is more one of weight. The Carbos are lighter. The critical difference to me is the ability to make adjustments to the jaw angle. The carbo ratchets are a pain is that respect.

Ok, as I understand it, the 2629 and 2630(becket) are ratchmatic (load sensing ratchet) no need to be able to reach the block to turn on off the ratchet. Yes carbo is lighter but also SHOULD be easier to use.
From the harken website
http://www.harkenstore.com/uniface.urd/SCCYSPW1

- Ratchet senses load and engages automatically
- Shifts seamlessly between ratchet and light air modes
- Adjustable ratchet engagement
- Free release under light load

the 194 and 2194 (hardest to adjust the angle on) have a on/off switch

This is why I am going with this block price is only a small percentage more.

Sam

GREAT THREAD!!!!!!

Now, this may sound somewhat lame, but, are there "standard" line colors for main and jib sheets? I am thinking of a red/black color theme for my H16. I am ALMOST more interested in line color than quality. I really want to use as close to solid black for the main sheet and red for Jib.

So it is either the Maffioli mentioned here or the New england Ropes Sta-Set series. I like the Sta-set because it looks cooler.

What say all you sailers?

Thanks
Sam

There is no "standard" main/jib sheet color. For a long time (until recently), Hobie Cat used a red, fuzzy line for the main and a blue one for the jib. I think they were Sampson or Yale brand line (Matt M. can say for sure).

If you're choosing between the Swiftcord and the Sta-set, I'd go with the Swiftcord. Your hands will thank you. Sta-set has a hard finish and is stiffer. Swiftcord is soft and will run through blocks without hockling (twisting up).

With that Information, now all I have to do is wait for the Tax refund to hit the account and than with a few clicks here and few clicks there here a click there a click wait few days and the boat has a few new parts.

And that can't be a bad thing.

Sam

PS. Anybody looking for a really old (32 years)set of seaway main blocks??

Sam - I think the 194's are easier to adjust the angle on. From Matt's previous post:

Mac05,

I agree:

194 - easiest to adjust angle - have to touch block to turn on/off ratchet

2600 series harder to adjust angle - (should be) auto on/off load sensing ratchet w/ adjustable sensing.

2100 series ratchets - seems to be Major Pain to adjust angle and have to touch block to turn on off ratchet.

Since I will probably not be racing and more of the set it and forget it type, the 2600 series seems be the best bet.

If it were a matter of $60 - $70 differance, I would go with the 194 but at at less than $40 diff, I like the ratchmatic.

Now, is there a need for the top blocks to be ratcheted(ratchmatic)?
What would be gained or lost?

Thanks
Sam

The ratchet adds drag to the line holding power. I can't imagine the need to have two ratchet sheaves. Too much drag possibly. You also risk having the ratchets on or off at differing times. I would rather have control over when they are on or off.

Hobie cat has used a variety of lines over the years. Curently the lines are Marlow:

<Excel Marstron is the perfect lightweight floating mainsheet for small dinghies. Excel Marstron has a braided core and smooth profile 16 plait cover of non-water absorbing floating Marstron. The smooth cover provides greater feel and faster running through blocks.>>

8mm Mainsheet and 6mm Jib Sheet.

Having an upper and lower ratchmatic will negate the need for the cleat totally. It is sometimes used be serious racing crews on modern boats to allow constant fine tuning of the mainsheet with very little line pull when not trimming. The same trick with double auto ratchets is used on spinnaker sheet, almost universally by now and it works great there. No trouble with ratchets turning off and on a t different times as they simple won't do that. The top ratchet will always engage before the lower one and disengage later.

The difference in sustained static holding power is massive. You go from about 1:6 on the partly wrapped lower ratchets to 1:60 of the combo. It will almost feel as it the sheet is in a cleat. But when you push the sheet towards the blocks then the line will run through the mainsheet system rather quickly. You'll have to use AUTO ratchet for both blocks otherwise it won't work well.

Wouter

Thanks Wouter,(sort of)

I thought I was ready to order, but now I have to think about this part also,(probably not too long tho).

If I wanted a quad block on top, how would you set that up with the ratchmatic? Harken does not have a quad or trip ratchmatic without a cam, they do have single and double. A trip none ratchmatic with a single side by side some how?

Maybe I missed the quad alltogether.

Thanks
Sam

Don't do it...

Keep it simple. 6:1 with the standard hexaratchet system in the lower cleating block. Triple lower and triple upper. It works.