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Re: ISAF Scores [Re: Tom Korz] #74783
05/11/06 05:00 PM
05/11/06 05:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 285
Hampton, Virginia
Tracie Offline
enthusiast
Tracie  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 285
Hampton, Virginia
I am so angry right now.
I can not believe that after all the email discussions between myself, US Sailing, ISAF, and the competitors, resulting in the green light from Olli and Kelli to compete, that this has happened.

It is absolutely inexcusable.

FACT – The mulithull class was originally an OPEN event. When the F18 North Americans was awarded to serve as the qualifying event for the Multhull slots, it was OPEN.

It wasn’t till well after the North Americans was over that we learned it had been changed. No one was ever notified.

It seems that because the Women’s event was added, the organizers felt the OPEN Multihull should be changed to a MENS.
Not taking into consideration for any mixed teams that may have already qualified.
I’d have to research the time lines (again) on when the changes happened, but I do remember that it was switched prior to the North Americans being held, but no one was informed.

Everyone, including US Sailing, was under the impression that this was a qualifier for the OPEN Multihull class at the ISAF World Games.

I am disgusted with sailing politics anymore.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: ISAF Scores [Re: Dan_Delave] #74784
05/11/06 05:45 PM
05/11/06 05:45 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
ejpoulsen Offline
old hand
ejpoulsen  Offline
old hand

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,037
Central California
Quote
Bad News that Ollie and Kelli were excused from the games. They were sailing in a "Men's Race" according to the NOR. Seems that there some protests about it and they were asked to leave.


The protestors must believe that having a woman on board provides an advantage...interesting.


Eric Poulsen
A-class USA 203
Ultimate 20
Central California
Re: ISAF Scores [Re: ejpoulsen] #74785
05/12/06 10:39 AM
05/12/06 10:39 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
F18OxJ Offline
journeyman
F18OxJ  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
Matt and Pat, Thanks so much for your nice offers. We are catching a flight back on Monday and will hit the road on Wednesday to come up so we'll bring our boat. Not missing Madcatter is the best part of this whole fiasco.

Here's our story:
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho...38&an=0&page=0#Post75738

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: Dan_Delave] #74786
05/12/06 11:19 AM
05/12/06 11:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
F18OxJ Offline
journeyman
F18OxJ  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
Quote
I know that there have not been women sailing in the Tornados at the Olympics but does the NOR for that specifically exclude women from it?


Dan, The Olympic Tornado class is open. Also, the previous World Sailing Games have had a Women's Multihull as well as an Open Multihull discipline.

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: PpS] #74787
05/12/06 11:21 AM
05/12/06 11:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
F18OxJ Offline
journeyman
F18OxJ  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 81
[quoteWelcome to the world of ISAF Bull Sh*t.
Write Jerome Pels to complain (Jerome@isaf.co.uk).
He's the Director of Sailing at ISAF meaning he's in charge of events and competitions.

[Linked Image] [/quote]

This is the guy who could have done the right thing in the protest hearing and honored the exception. I believe he is also the one who originally notified Gary that Kelly was to be denied entry.

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: F18OxJ] #74788
05/12/06 11:32 AM
05/12/06 11:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Not that it makes any difference, but I got the impression that they had changed the Open Multihull division to Men's, because they have been thinking of dropping the Women's Multihull division from the World Games, depending upon how many women attended this year, and they thought having an Open Multihull might further dilute the attendance in the Women's event.

Ironic that the result of Pels' action was to actually exclude a woman from the World Games. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: F18OxJ] #74789
05/12/06 11:51 AM
05/12/06 11:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
F

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
[quote][quoteWelcome to the world of ISAF Bull Sh*t.
Write Jerome Pels to complain (Jerome@isaf.co.uk).
He's the Director of Sailing at ISAF meaning he's in charge of events and competitions.
[image]

Why bother? He's probably on some sort of "power trip" and considers this a testament to his control.

The only way to get to this guy is through an effective boycott. Unless someone looses money, this guy is untouchable.

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: fin.] #74790
05/12/06 12:13 PM
05/12/06 12:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 115
H
HobieZealot Offline
member
HobieZealot  Offline
member
H

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 115
I think Ollie and Kelly lost plenty of money on this one!

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: fin.] #74791
05/12/06 12:17 PM
05/12/06 12:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
I would write to either secretariat@isaf.co.uk or to "Simon Forbes" [email]Simon@isaf.co.uk.[/email] Maybe he will just pass the e-mails on to Jerome Pels, or maybe he will distribute them to some others within ISAF, as well. At least your messages will be reaching one more person.

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: Mary] #74792
05/12/06 12:21 PM
05/12/06 12:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 49
P
PpS Offline
newbie
PpS  Offline
newbie
P

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 49
You could also write to everyone on your MNA's ISAF Delegation

http://www.ussailing.com/isaf/committee.asp

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: Mary] #74793
05/12/06 12:28 PM
05/12/06 12:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Remember that ISAF considers the United States to be a rebellious problem child. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Here is what ISAF past president Paul Henderson told me late in his tenure:
"In my 10 years as ISAF President 90% of the problems have been with the USA as happened with my predecessors. The difference is that they ignored the pedantic complaints but I, as a Canadian who was used to the US of A, continued to believe that I should try and bring the Camel inside the tent rather than keep them outside the tent no matter how bad the breath of the Camel. The US of A reaction to anyone who does not buy into their view of the world is that you are anti-American. Nothing could be further from the truth. During my tenure every USSA delegate who wanted to be on an ISAF committee was appointed and I tried to have special regulations to allow the US of A to work their way as I did with the Bacardi Cup against the opposition of the other countries. But when they are totally ridiculous refusing to meet their obligations as happens with Olympic classes I was very militant..."

Last edited by Mary; 05/12/06 12:38 PM.
Re: ISAF Scores [Re: Mary] #74794
05/12/06 12:38 PM
05/12/06 12:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Was this premeditated then? A U.S. team thrown out on ANY pretext?

I've long made it a policy not to go places I'm not wanted, but that's just me.

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: Mary] #74795
05/12/06 12:47 PM
05/12/06 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
F
fin. Offline
Carpal Tunnel
fin.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,348
Quote
But when they are totally ridiculous refusing to meet their obligations as happens with Olympic classes I was very militant..."


I don't know this history, care to enlighten me?

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: fin.] #74796
05/12/06 12:54 PM
05/12/06 12:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
No, I do not think it was premeditated.

It's just a matter of "Ignorance of the law is no excuse," and Gary Bodie having nothing in writing granting the exception to allow a woman in a men's event.

Re: ISAF Scores [Re: fin.] #74797
05/12/06 01:34 PM
05/12/06 01:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Quote
Quote
But when they are totally ridiculous refusing to meet their obligations as happens with Olympic classes I was very militant..."


I don't know this history, care to enlighten me?


Sorry, Pete, but I don't know the history. Henderson told me, "I have no more time to try and educate you on these matters."

I do want to make it clear, however, that I thought Paul Henderson was the best president ISAF ever had. At least he was hands-on and accessible and very outspoken and you always knew exactly what he thought about things, whether you agreed with him or not (and most of the time I did agree with him).

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