I starting sailing 2 years ago with a Wave but i've been thinking seriously about upgrading to a 16. i'd mainly be sailing on the FL east coast. the Wave's seemingly indestructible design and simplicity are great, but i feel my skills have improved to the point that i'd be able to appreciate the performance and speed of a Hobie 16.

I've found 2 great deals on 16's nearby but i've never sailed a 16 before and have been hesitant to buy one.

I'm also considering a Prindle 16. i've heard both parise and disgust for the Prindle. it sounds like one of those Coke vs. Pepsi arguments, depending on which one people were raised with originally. I hear the hulls on the Prindle have more buoyancy toward the bow. is this true?

how does the 16 sail in 4 to 5 feet seas?

I won't be doing much racing, if any at all. Rigging time isn't a concern. Most of the time I'll have a crew with me but I could be sailing solo sometimes too.

has anyone else gone through this transition? if you havent't, i'd still like to hear your input too. What do you love most about the 16?

thanks very much!

happy sailing,

-Will

Just Do it

It's really hard to go wrong with a H16 (or P16). Like the Wave, they are simple and durable but they are a definite step up in sailing performance. Even if you find it is not the boat for you, they are very easy to sell. However, there is a lot of 20-30 year old junk for sale out there. If you don't have a lot of H16 knowledge, I recommend taking a friend to evaluate the hulls and sails of any boat for sale. The rest of the stuff is (reletively) modest cost to replace.

H16 v. P16: Very little difference between these boats. They were both designed as rugged, off-the-beach boats. H16 has the advantage of being more popular, therefore more used parts available, etc.

4 to 5 foot seas: Any beach cat is going to be a handfull in these conditions, sustained 20+ kts. Maybe the Gulf Stream can create 4-5 in less wind, I guess your milage may vary. If the argument is that the H16 is pitch pole happy in 4-5, then show me any beach cat that isn't! The H16 hull design does make it more easy to pitch pole but it is all reletive. It is not an issue so egregious that you should not consider buying one. The argument is usually posed by people wihout a lot of H16 experience or have some other agenda.

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thanks for response guys.

when i go to check out a cat, how should i test to see if there are soft spots? what other specific things should i look for?

oops the second part of that post didn't send... i'll just continue it below:

i found a Hobie 16 down in tampa on craigslist and asked for a picture. one thing i noticed in the photo was what appeared to be an irregular bend in the tiller bar. is this normal?

to see the picture, its attached in my last post.

thanks again!

edit: the cat is from 1986 and its going for $1000. this seems a little low compared to other mid-80's cats i've seen. is this something to be concerned about?

I had a buddy with a P16. I think they sail very well. They have more bow and less sail which makes them a little easier to sail than the Hobie 16 I guess. Biggest issues are the rudder system is funky and possibly parts availability. They quit building this boat years and years ago.

On the other hand... there are 100,000 something Hobie 16s out there and we still build them. Parts are readily available. They sail well off the beach. They are a blast!

I stepped up to my first 16 from a Sunfish in 1976. I found the 16 to be easier to sail, more stable... but wow....way more power and fun. This will be an exciting transition for you! Ye Haw!

Do you mean the tiller or tiller crossbar? Your picture doesn't work. The early H16s did have a bend in the tillers. The only other thing thing bent on a H16 is the front crossbar.

Believe the H16 had the bent tiller for most of the '80s.

20 YO H16 in average condition for $1K sounds about right.

Yes, tiller arms were bent in a vertical direction till about the late 80's - early 90's.

ok... those tiller arms just looked different from other new ones i'd seen. i attached the photo again (hopefully it works this time). i eventually found out the hulls have delamination starting 8 to 10 inches forward from the forward pylons extending 2 feet down the bow. Even if i fixed this up with epoxy, how would the structural integrity of the boat be affected?

CMerrel - how would you define "average condition" for an '80s cat? i've found two with no delam, nice sails, trailer, a few upgrades going for 1500 to 1700. is this about right? I know it all depends on the individual boat, but an 80's cat is an 80's cat...

IMHO average condition for a '80s boat would be one that was used but not abused. Original sails, some wear to batten pockets but no major rips or repairs; original trampoline, showing its age; solid hulls, chalky gel coat and quality bottom job okay but no major damage or sloppy repairs, no soft spots; straight, watertight mast; proper off season care (e.g. boat on a trailer not on the beach, sails stored inside); etc. Upgrades that would add value to an "average" boat would be replacement sails, replacement tramp, rigging less than 2 YO, upgraded blocks, upgraded/reconditioned rudder system.

There are so many variables that it is hard to say what is a good price especially considering trailer/trailer condition, PFD/trap harnesses, spare parts, time of year, motivation of buyer/seller, etc.

I would walk away from any H16 with soft spots in front of the pylons.

The bend in the tillers is normal.

If the soft spots are as big as you describe I'd walk away from the deal. There are a lot of boats available that won't force you into major repair mode the day you buy it.

CMerrell - assuming the best time of year to buy a H16 would be when supply is high and demand is low, when is the best time to buy? It seems like everyone looking to buy wants them right before summer and people who sell would sell them in fall. Is this guess correct?

hobie1616 - after i found out about the delam i broke the deal.

If the bottom of the hulls are a bit worn from beach dragging, is there a way to fix that? would adding a few layers of epoxy work?

More availibility in the fall is a good assumption. Prices should drop too.

If you can find someone with pristine hulls, make a couple of templates so you'll know how far to build up the hulls. Use epoxy and add micro balloons for strength. Throw in some color and you'll be all set.

Will,

The H-16 is a great boat. I have owned mine for 21 years and have been completely satisfied. I should think there would be a lot of boats available in Florida but I don't know how they stand up to the UV in that strong FL sun. Buy the best boat you can afford because you want to sail not work on it. Further north I can see that demand drops in the fall but I wouldn't think that to be true in FL. Here in NC, spring and fall are the best sailing times. If you wait, you lose that time you could have been sailing.

I wore the bottom of the hulls out from dragging it on the beach. Someone poured two strips of resin on the bottom of each hull for me and I haven't had a problem with it since. There used to be a kit with metal (copper?) strips that you could buy to repair and reinforce the bottoms.

Howard

I thought MicroBalloons were added to thicken the epoxy into something that would buildup. But Microballoons are also used because they are easy to sand off for fairing. Something easy to sand wouldn't be practical here would it?
Would the colloidal silica make a better thickener/hardener?
Or does it then become too hard to fair back to your hull?

Glass fibre is the best solution I have heard of for a bottom job. The glass is layed up in 4-6-8 layers. Left to set up "green" where the glass can be trimmed/shaped (like hard rubber) with a knife. Then filed when fully cured. The guy I know, who did this in San Diego, added a clear coat if the customer really wanted it. Not necessary.

Just sayin' that sellers can ask for more $ at the start of the season vs. the end.

I've used FG cloth and polyester resin for hull repairs in the past. Have not used epoxy. A site search will unearth copius info from the expert "glass men".

I own both the Wave and the Hobie 16. If you can afford them both, it's a great combination. The advantage of the Wave is the quick set up, and easy solo sail. I sail the Hobie 16 on Lake Michigan. I mostly sail the Wave on inland lakes. I have had them both on Lake Michigan and the difference is that the Wave "plows" through the waves and gets slowed down more. The Hobie 16 "slices" through/over them. The fiberglass hulls and larger sail area will be a nice step up for you. I think you will be very pleased with the difference. The Hobie 16 will open up a whole new world of sailing for you. Go for it!

Suggested reading: anything related to "pitchpole". <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Delaminated hulls???!!!

If the sails and mast are in great shape, I would pay up to $500. But, you are going to have to fix the delaminations.-It's a must fix! Otherwise, run away.