John, It is a long long long way 1-up.

Full respect to Scooby and Matt Young (A-cat) on doing the ECPR course single handed but the majority of solo sailors opted for Colne Pt. Think the A-cat my have even turned for home 1st.

I reckon the Stealths must have been issued a favourable handicap though as there didn't seem to be enough time between myself and two well sailed Shadows.

See you there next year.

Aaron,

Were you sailing one up or 2 up as the results have you on a Handicap of 103 which (I think) is the 2 up handicap for the Stealth R.

Just wondering.

Cheers

And yes, it was a flippin long way, and being that bit slower I was caught (along with a fair few spitfires / F18's and F16's the wrong side of Clacton) I'm guessing Matt was around just as the tide turned and then (in about 5 kts of wind) it took ages me to plug the strong tide to then turn around. GPS plot shows a total sailing distance of about 41 miles in non trapping conditions (for an Inter 17).

Back there next year on the weekend of the 7th / 8th July and it's the 20th year so it's going to be a big one.

Simon,
We were sailing 2-up on the saturday off 102 (i think). Did a change of configuration form on the Sunday for 1-up and the lady at the race office said there were already two other Stealths in that config and she would make me the same as them.
I honestly still don't know what that number was.

I sincerely hope so. I'm actually back up walking around OK again now. Just the odd twinge so I have to be a bit careful. Total bummer as Pete Pollard would say!

Non trapezeing, any distance race is a long, long way! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

So, respect to everyone for getting round whether it was the long or the short course!

OK; well then the results are wrong as they have you sailing off 103 for saturday which should be 102 and then sailing on 103 for Sunday as well as you should be on 0.98.

I have an excel copy of the results that the SCHRS group are using. A summary of the results are available on the Marconi website here

I think people must enter as exactly what they are as they were asking me questions all weekend as to what things where (afterall they don't know that a stealth is an F16, maybe they thought you were a stealth R on 103 ?)

So in your case a single handed F16.

This does raise the question of how we should race in open events. If we have an F16 event, we race 1-up vs 2-up on the water. In an open event, we have handicaps of 0.98 vs 1.02 which is a fair spread. Presumably nobody would object if the 2-up F16s accepted the vicious 0.98 handicap, but that rather ruins our chances against other classes (3% faster than an F18?)

I am hoping that one of the things to come out of Simon's work on the SCHRS will be a slower rating for the single-handers. I think our experience on the F16s is a good data point here: our boats are comparable on the water 1-up vs 2-up over a reasonable range of wind conditions. Unless SCHRS adopts separate low-wind / high-wind ratings, a formula that comes up with a very similar figure for the two F16 configurations would seem both reasonable and defensible.

As an aside, I think we should make a point of including "F16" in the boat name when signing on. Aside from making the RC's job easier, it's a small but important piece of class promotion to get the class name in the results.

Paul

Which will really confuse people if you're claiming 1.03 for a Stealth R!

But then Geaorge, IF you're sailing an 'R' you're entitled to a different handicap. The R is just a different version from the same builder. Just like any other builder having several models. There's nothing confusing about that.

I understand that John, but it gets confusing for people who don't understand SCHRS and who expect Stealths to be one design! Particularly if someone enters as an F16 but wants a bigger handicap than the handicap that the SCHRS list would imply is correct. I've had loads of hassle at my club getting handicaps for our Stealths sorted, particularly as one sails in a very strange configuration (F16 main and the original, tiny jib) having previously sailed as an R with the original main and an R jib. It doesn't help that our racing is run under PY so we have to come up with a conversion factor too.

Sorry, I should have prefixed my original suggestion with, "assuming you're racing off one of the F16 handicaps". If you're going to claim 1.03 then you should not state that you're F16 as that will indeed cause confusion.

Owners of fully-optimised F16s are supposed to race off the F16 rating - the bigger main means they're not entitled to the Stealth R's 1.03.

The grief you're having with the Stealth's rating is one of the things that makes formula racing attractive: builders and buyers both have a desire to gradually improve their boats. A formula system allows this to happen whilst retaining on-the-water racing off a single handicap (OK, two for as long as SCHRS scores 1-up and 2-up differently).

If you're racing at an open that includes a mix of configurations, you might consider racing Stealths and Stealth Rs off the F16 handicaps. To an outsider, seeing 6 F16s on the score sheet looks like a more interesting class than 3 F16s, two Stealth Rs and a "Stealth R minus large jib plus F16 main". After all, this is how we race at events like Datchet and Mumbles.

When I raced my Stealth R, I was always much more interested to see how I did againts F16s *on the water* than worrying about that last percent of handicap against completely different boats.

Paul

Everyone, I'm feeling really bad here. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Sent a mail to Marconi SC last night to change me to 0.98 and recalculate. I left Marconi as soon as I got in on Sunday so didn't see the results at the club and still can't see the rating on the web site.
Hopefully the results will be updated soon and I can rest easy again. No prizes collected by the way. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Aaron,

that shows great sportsmanship and an example to all. How many other sports would this happen in ?

Well done.

As for the difference you sailing on at 0.98, I think you will end up second as you were a fair way ahead of Olly.

As for ratings changing, yes some will. I cannot (and will not) discuss what is happening in detail until we are in the position to publish the paper that is being worked on, this will need to be approved by the ISAF and so we can only suggest changes to the rule.

But things continue to be investigated and modelled as we speak. I spent a good 90 minutes on "SCHRS" business at the weekend at Marconi and we have made significant progress on ironing out some glitches. I have also had commitment from various other sources to provide data to assist us.

Will anyone be doing the 4inches race ?

Hey Simon,

This is us the F16 class, we believe in being fair to others !

That is why we have been trying to make the F16 2-up ISAF rating faster for the last year ! =)

Because we allowed ourselfs a slightly more mainsail area in spring 2005 when we simplified the class rules.

Please don't forget about that. Actually I have yet to receive any confirmation that ISAF or SCHRS has received our repeated requests.



Well congratulations Aaron, for 0.98 is one harsh rating for the F16 singlehanded.


Wouter

Wouter,

What is your measured sailarea now (under current SCHRS rules)?

Er, that'll be the 2007 Four Inches? The 2006 race was on June 24th.....

My measured mainsail area is still 14.85 sq. mtr. but I have an older F16 mainsail (pre spring 2005).

Since april 2005, 15.0 sq. mtr. mainsails are allowed. with a max luff (under tension) of 8.10 mtr

Also since april 2005 the jibs may be 3.70 sq.mtr. with max 6.00 mtr. luff and leech. However none of us is going over 5.5 mtr with our jibs.

When you punch those in in the old SCHRS handicap calculator we end up at the F18 ratings again.

Wouter

OK, can the chair of the F16 assoc. (or nominated person) send me a list of all F16 class measurements that are currently in the SCHRS rule (so as above plus the others) and also Max allowed beam and I will add them into the mix for our revisions for SCHRS. Please do not just send me a copy of your class rules, I do not have time to read them and extrapolate the appropriate data. However, a copy of the class rules as well would not go amiss. Please send to me at SimonL(at sign)schrs.org.

I cannot be certain that you WILL end up on the same handicap as an F18; but with the numbers you give us it will be useful in testing any changes we make to the rule with your stated belief that the F16 and F18 should be on the same rating.

Doh......

Anyone know an email address so I could get a copy of the results (with handicaps used etc) ?

Simon,
I'll put together what you need and PM you it.

Try Richie Furber - richie.snecca(at)hotmail.co.uk