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Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: John Williams] #79736
07/17/06 09:34 AM
07/17/06 09:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
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scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
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But what can the RC protest the competitors about ?

If a boat is out of class (or not carrying the correct equipment), then it would be other competitors (or the official measurer) who would be protesting (or do you count the RC as OM ?)


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

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Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: John Williams] #79737
07/17/06 09:49 AM
07/17/06 09:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I heard tale that a lot of the new jibs have straight battens in them and have sailed with one myself -I didn't try but I imagine I would have a tough time furling it with the 3.9" diameter required.

Quote
B.4.2.2 For safety purpose, it shall be mandatory, when racing, to furl
done by the crew in normal position on the trampoline. The crew may be asked to demonstrate his ability to furl the jib when
B.4.2.3 The maximum diameter of the furled jib shall be 100 mm.


For that matter, that jib I sailed certainly didn't meet this one:

Quote
B.4.2.4 The maximum number of jib battens will be 4. The battens and/or the batten pockets length shall not exceed a distance of 250 mm normal from the leech. The batten pockets shall be parallel to the luff (± 5°), with a maximum inside length of 300 mm. The jibs measured, marked and appearing on a measurement certificate prior to 1st December 2001 remain permitted until 1st March 2003.


Jake Kohl
Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: Jake] #79738
07/17/06 10:11 AM
07/17/06 10:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Yeah - the straight-batten jib will NOT furl to the required dimension.

Do you think we can propose some rules changes (like furled dimension and sticker location) before September??

[i]edit - straight battens are allowed in the International F18 rules - the "parallel to the luff" appears to be a NA thing, along with the furled dimension. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by John Williams; 07/17/06 10:33 AM.

John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: scooby_simon] #79739
07/17/06 10:44 AM
07/17/06 10:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 371
Michigan, USA
sparky Offline
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sparky  Offline
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Michigan, USA
Scooby,

It is in the Rules that an event measurer is compelled to notify the RC of any equipment violations and the RC is to protest the offending boats. There is a section of the Rules called "Event Measurement" that contains the following:

F.3.4. EVENT MEASURER’S RESPONSIBILITY: The RRS 78.3 gives the initial authority to the event measurers to determine whether an item of material complies or not with the class rules. This authority is afforded only during the event measurement. If a measurer is convinced without any doubt that an item of material does not comply with the rules, he shall write a report to the race committee, who shall lodge a protest against the yacht.


Les Gallagher
Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: sparky] #79740
07/17/06 11:05 AM
07/17/06 11:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
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Quote
Scooby,

It is in the Rules that an event measurer is compelled to notify the RC of any equipment violations and the RC is to protest the offending boats. There is a section of the Rules called "Event Measurement" that contains the following:

F.3.4. EVENT MEASURER’S RESPONSIBILITY: The RRS 78.3 gives the initial authority to the event measurers to determine whether an item of material complies or not with the class rules. This authority is afforded only during the event measurement. If a measurer is convinced without any doubt that an item of material does not comply with the rules, he shall write a report to the race committee, who shall lodge a protest against the yacht.


OK, thanks, never had a boat fail measurement so I'd not experienced it.

So it appears that maybe a number of boats were not m,easuring, or re-measuring !


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: scooby_simon] #79741
07/17/06 03:39 PM
07/17/06 03:39 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 103
The Netherlands
Boomer Offline
member
Boomer  Offline
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The Netherlands
The RC did a random check on several boats and during one of these checks (Kenbeek/Brouwer) the RC challenged the correctness of their paddle. After that Kenbeek filed a protest against all other competitors to have their paddle (especially length) checked. After that the RC decided to check all paddles and it seemed their was a queue next to the measurers tent with at least 100 competitors having all kinds of ingenious paddle-like creations.
Dutchman Vincent Kruyt "found" a flagpole to extend his paddle not knowing the original owner of the plagpole was standing just behind him in the queue. A chase, which started in de RC's tent and ended on the beach, followed.
Also the Boulogne bro's came up with a paddle made out of a beertray. Hilarious.

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: Boomer] #79742
07/17/06 04:45 PM
07/17/06 04:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 736
Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
Brian_Mc Offline
old hand
Brian_Mc  Offline
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Westport, Ma. U.S.A.
John and Brian, Where is Adventure Online TV when we need them? I can only imagine the video you guys would've made of that chase...

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: Brian_Mc] #79743
07/17/06 04:59 PM
07/17/06 04:59 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,114
BANNED
MauganN20 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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BANNED
PADDLEGATE!

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: MauganN20] #79744
07/17/06 06:53 PM
07/17/06 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
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Quote
PADDLEGATE!


read-the-flippin-class-rules-gate !


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: John Williams] #79745
07/17/06 07:47 PM
07/17/06 07:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
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C2 Mike  Offline
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Victoria, Australia
Quote
Here's a question... who came up with the formula? Seriously. Go back far enough and there's probably like one or two guys who got behind the original concept. And when was the last significant change to the formula? I don't mean changing the dimensions of the paddle or limits on carbon fiber, but substantive changes like hull width or volume.


Check out http://www.f18-international.org/history.htm for a brief history of the F18 class. AFAIK there have been no major changes of the class rules beyond the control of snuffer tubes, allowing self tackers and control of sail materials.

Tiger Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: Jake] #79746
07/17/06 07:51 PM
07/17/06 07:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337
Victoria, Australia
C2 Mike Offline
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Quote
I heard tale that a lot of the new jibs have straight battens in them and have sailed with one myself -I didn't try but I imagine I would have a tough time furling it with the 3.9" diameter required.

Quote
B.4.2.2 For safety purpose, it shall be mandatory, when racing, to furl
done by the crew in normal position on the trampoline. The crew may be asked to demonstrate his ability to furl the jib when
B.4.2.3 The maximum diameter of the furled jib shall be 100 mm.


For that matter, that jib I sailed certainly didn't meet this one:

Quote
B.4.2.4 The maximum number of jib battens will be 4. The battens and/or the batten pockets length shall not exceed a distance of 250 mm normal from the leech. The batten pockets shall be parallel to the luff (± 5°), with a maximum inside length of 300 mm. The jibs measured, marked and appearing on a measurement certificate prior to 1st December 2001 remain permitted until 1st March 2003.


The furling one is a common problem with 4:1 self tackers. Not many actually furl and IIRC the furler is scheduled for deletion in the near future.

Jib batten pockets are another common area of non-compliance. Once again when they go full batten jibs, this issue will dissappear.

Tiger Mike

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: Brian_Mc] #79747
07/17/06 09:41 PM
07/17/06 09:41 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 503
BrianK Offline
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BrianK  Offline
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John and I are sipping foo foo drinks with the wives. Were on holiday!

Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: John Williams] #79748
07/18/06 02:37 AM
07/18/06 02:37 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
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Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Quote
Also noticed that the F-18 logos have to go on the port and starboard hulls under the rear beam... right where my "Capricorn" logo is. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


Under the rear beam on the inside of the hulls, with certain measurement details writen under the clear F18 sticker.

As for the paddles, I cant believe sailors going to these events, do not study the rules. Sailors should also forget taking shortcuts making a paddle and just buy or make a usable paddle under the class rules.


Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #79749
07/18/06 06:36 AM
07/18/06 06:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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John Williams  Offline
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Long Beach, California
Hey Steve -

I was talking about the NAF-18 Class Sticker - they go on the outside of the hulls under the rear beams rather than inside where the measurement stickers go... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: F18 Worlds starts today!!!!!! [Re: John Williams] #79750
07/18/06 07:55 AM
07/18/06 07:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Cool, thought the NAF was a typo......

How do you like your new Capricorn. Hopefully we will see the class build rapidly in the US with the new US dealer and recent Capricorn success.

Are you still looking at coming over to Oz for the 07 Worlds and if so, if you have any questions, please e-mail me and I will help you out where I can.

Cheers


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