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Pointing #85257
09/23/06 08:42 PM
09/23/06 08:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline OP
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ncik  Offline OP
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I can't point! The boat is going very well with plenty of speed when sailing to the jib telltales but it is well below the other cats (H16's, Taipans, F18's). When I try to point with them the speed just dies completely. The jib is sheeted in about 15-20cm from the inboard gunwhale(will measure precisely today), and it can come in further, but I'm reluctant to do that, it seems to close the slot too much for my liking.

Is this common for mossies, or should I be adjusting the setup?

Admittedly the water was very lumpy yesterday and maybe that was affecting our speed when trying to point, but even in relatively flat water at Lake Cootharaba we were pointing lower than all other cats, but we were going fast enough for it to not be a problem (our VMG was still good).

Next thing I will try is to tighten up the rig tension a bit, reducing forestay sag hopefully.

Any other suggestions or experiences.

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Pointing [Re: ncik] #85258
09/23/06 08:57 PM
09/23/06 08:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 265
Sydney AUST
becjm Offline
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Sydney AUST
I had the same problem yesterday. Also how do all you othre mozzies compare with hobie 17s (speed wise)


---Ben Cutmore---
--MOSQUITO 1704--
Re: Pointing [Re: becjm] #85259
09/24/06 12:28 AM
09/24/06 12:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 943
East Gippsland, Australia
Tim_Mozzie Offline
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East Gippsland, Australia
Hobie 17s are rated faster than a Mosquito but there's not much in it, so it's not uncommon for a Mosquito (on a good day) to finish (just) ahead of a 17.

As far as pointing goes, a Mozzie definitely points higher than a H17 (they don't have any centreboards), and the Mozzie should point at least as high as the other cats - so keep working on this!

If you can tighten the rig that should help some, but don't get too carried away. I've been told that the jib luff will stand up better if you get the mainsheet tension on before you tighten the jib sheets. The jib luff tension is mostly provided by the mainsheet.

I also notice the sloops have their traveller set up so it can be really positively centred (not that important for cat-rig).

Hopefully some sloop sailors will be able to throw more light on this.


Tim Shepperd
Mosquito 1775
Karma Cat
Re: Pointing [Re: Tim_Mozzie] #85260
09/24/06 02:02 AM
09/24/06 02:02 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Are you sailing with the windward telltales lifting on the jib, or are both sets (windward and leeward) streaming aft?
If you are sailing with the windward telltales streaming aft, you are footing off, which is fast but dont usually give best VMG. Windward telltales should lift 15-30deg when in pointing mode (which is after the start when you have free wind).

How old and how much use have your jib seen?

Re: Pointing [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #85261
09/24/06 03:36 AM
09/24/06 03:36 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline OP
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ncik  Offline OP
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Fastest VMG atm seems to be with both telltales streaming. As soon as we point, windward telltale starts to lift and speed drops off significantly.

Interesting note about getting the main on first, might try that because it would explain a few things.

Jib is newish, about a year old but with little use so far.

I do feel as though it is the jib setup, will have to spend a bit of time working through the possible solutions I think.

Re: Pointing [Re: ncik] #85262
09/24/06 03:41 AM
09/24/06 03:41 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Another thing about windward speed is what you have under water. If mast rake and other settings is in the ballpark, your foils might need some work. Filling any dents and wet-sanding both daggers and rudders make a large difference if they are a bit rough.

Re: Pointing [Re: Rolf_Nilsen] #85263
09/24/06 03:53 AM
09/24/06 03:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline OP
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ncik  Offline OP
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Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
I did that about a month ago, faired and two-pack painted then wet-and-dry to 1200 grit. I felt as though there was a significant improvement from the old finish.

Do mossies have issues with chop?

Re: Pointing [Re: ncik] #85264
09/24/06 06:17 PM
09/24/06 06:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
D
Darryn Offline
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Darryn  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 502
Port Noarlunga, SA, Australia
I found an accurate compass, Taktik, very useful for improving pointing, better then comparing your performance to other boats as they can swap back and forth between footing and pointing modes. I have reduced my tacking angle by 4 degrees since I started using one.

Re: Pointing [Re: Darryn] #85265
09/24/06 08:30 PM
09/24/06 08:30 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
South Australia
Darryl_Barrett Offline
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Darryl_Barrett  Offline
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South Australia
There are a lot of guy’s sailing sloop rigged cats who have a “pointing” problem caused by their crew being “enthusiastic” when setting the jib when coming out of a tack (or any other time for that matter). When you tack, the crew can generally (and do) pull the jib on and set it before the skipper has had time to set the main. This will pull a “curve” into the forestay/jib luff, and when the main is set, that curve will stop the boat from being able to be pointed to its highest with advantage. A good solution to this is that after the skipper has set the main, the crew “crack” the jib sheet and then resets it. This allows the mainsheet to re-tension the forestay and take that curve out of the jib luff, freeing up the airflow across both the jib and the main.

Re: Pointing [Re: Darryl_Barrett] #85266
09/24/06 10:43 PM
09/24/06 10:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 951
Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
ncik Offline OP
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ncik  Offline OP
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Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
That sounds like the most likely possibility. We have issues rounding up after a tack if I sheet in the main too quickly so the jib does tension up first. We will work on it.


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