Now let's see....

I want a boat that's down to minimum weight, can be built incredibly cheaply and quickly at home. It needs to be incredibly fast in light winds as well as 20knots plus. Oh yes, it also needs to be the fastest fast thing ever in all the wind speeds in between.....<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />




































I'll get me coat then?

For anyone who might be interested in my idea of an extreme F16, this is it:


Striker screen grab





I've christened it "Striker". Well, you've got to find something to do rather than work, haven't you?

Are those images at scale? What program is that? I think I can use that to design and create scaled graphics.

That's the Freeship program that Erez posted the link to earlier. Yes, they are to scale.

It looks like a "Striker" to me!
but it needs more volume up front
How long did it take you to do?

I did say it was extreme.... I have actually put quite a bit of volume up front, especially low down. I guess it took a bit over an hour to knock up.

"Striker"? Looks more like a "Sniper" to me <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
How would you build it?

How about canted hulls and daggerboards? I really do not know the proper terms, but try to visualize. The hulls canted outwords (away from the mast) and the dagger boards canted inwards (towards the mast). No extreme angles though. Something simple, maybe at 80 to 70 degrees from the mast.

I dunno im just throwing an idea out.

It'd have to be built in carbon/kevlar/epoxy because of all the compound curves. So that means building a plug, and a mould and a vacuum system so it's not a realistic home DIY project. Anyhow, it's only my idea of the ultimate, 'edgy' F16 hull shape. The hydrostatics actually look pretty good but I think it'd be really difficult to sail and the crew weight and position would be hyper-critical.

There is some software available to analyze hull performance. When toying around with ideas, it can be a fun exercise to run your hullshapes trough it. A hull canted outwards should be inferior when sailing the boat flat.

http://www.cyberiad.net/michlet.htm

Here is an example of how the software can be used:
http://personal.inet.fi/private/muu/torodrag.htm

The Stealth already has hulls canted at 4.5 degrees, I don't know that it makes a huge difference over vertically set hulls though.

Canting the boards has a lot of theoretical advantages and banana boards even more so. However, I don't think the F16 class want to be getting into the sorts of arguments that have taken place in the A Class......

Hmm, the way I would aproach that in a home build is install the board trunk close to the out edge on the deck and close to the inner edge on the hull.

The dagger boards to do not have to be curved. And to be make the hulls canted maybe create/build some beam cradles with an angle.

ill draw something up when I get home.

John,

there is always vertical foam stripping, strip plank or even cold moulding for one off projects. It gets more expensive the more high-tech you go, but not impossible for DIY.

From the DIY perspective. The hulls don't seem to me a big deal. Certainly there can and will be more development and refinement that will take place. Lots of folks have the time and skills to build Blade hulls or Mozzie hulls or take your pick hulls and that cost will not vary too much.

The superwing mast is the stumbling block. I sail/race an old boat on a limited budget. I only look at the F16 forum as I would drive past the Porsche dealership, very slowly and only looking.

What possibly can be done to take the "bite" out of the mast cost? Is it that much a contributor to speed? Can a different (more common) extrusion be developed along with accompanying sail.

Is this at all possible or just another dream?

I dont see why not. The question is, will it be as competitive as a wing masted F16? Depends on who is sailing the wingmasted boat vs the non wingmasted boat. So its a matter of who you will be sailing with. If it is just to ponder around a lake without any need for racing, then sure do it. But if you want to be competitive then the wingmast is the way to go.

Robi, I'd point out that the Stealth doen't use a wingmast and it's every bit as competitive as the Blade/Taipan....

I personally am competitive. My point is I've been able to race a well taken care of second hand boat, that still is at minimum weight with relatively new sails and have great fun competeing in the middle of the fleet. Would my (if I could) buying a new boat or sails every year or so move me up (probably not).

Can a percentage be put on super-wing versus non? Is it like a turbo vs. non-turbo or is it like a Porsche with a VW motor? Or does anyone really know?

Thanks John, If I hang around long enough I may learn something! Makes sense that Stealth is very competitve priced.

You may continue and I'll window shop. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I think the issue of wingmast vs. teardrop shaped mast on beachcats still is undecided. The latest showdowns between Blades and Stealths at least seem to imply so. The wingmast do produce less drag and possibly higher lift, but getting it in the groove is the hard part.
I have heard that the A-class mast has become more wing shaped, but dont know how they compare to the Superwing.
This is one of the reasons why the Zandvoort event next august will be so much fun (Robi, start working on your better part to get funding)

John, if you want to go F-16. Get or even homebuild the hulls and foils, and put any comparable rig on it and get on the water! In the end, time spent well on the water is what is important (both in competition and recreational sailing).

And what is really good about this program, (besides the fact that it is specifically for long thin catamaran like hulls) is that freeship can output the data directly to it, so if John can post his hull file somehow, I am happy to run it through michlet for you.

But as Wouter said unless you have a spec, i.e. something to aim for the results won't mean much.

Gareth