We never claimed these things, it is the other side that has intepreted the things we did say as such. Not our fault.


No boat is weight insensitive, not are the F16's. We are however less weight sensitive then many think us to be. Also it has more to do with the new modern hullshapes and the high speed of the boats then mast and sail combo's. I think I have written 1000's of times that the older Taipan 4.9 (my own boat) is noticeably more sensitive then the newer boats like Blade and Stealth F16's. The higher speeds and spinnaker have moved the onus much more to sailor skills then crew weight. Currently angle of attack limitations are holding the boats back more then crew weight differences do.

I don't think that anybody said that the F16 goes upwind like a N20. As a matter of fact there interesting differences between the two boats. In strong winds I have no trouble beating I-20's when going upwind, in light winds I do my very best to even stay close. It is also telling that the best US F16 crew fought a 60 minute upwind battle with the best US I-20 crew as recently as this years Hagars run. F18's were trailing behind. But I don't think that this is sufficient ground yet to claim "An F16 goes upwind like an N20"

We do claim however that F16's go upwind like an F18 and that has been proven many times over. Most strikingly at the Alter Cup qualifier area D last november. You yourself (on an F18) had to yield to the McDonalds on an F16; and I'm talking about elasped time finishes here, no handicap calculations. You've lost 4 out of 7 races to that F16 crew and that would have been 5 out of 7 if thay hadn't hooked the finish bouy anker line.





And I fully agree with you on this statement. If an untruth has been told by any F16 owner then I'll be among the first to admit to that. Problem at this time may be however that we didn't tell any untruths yet.

I'm sorry

Wouter

(Thanks for this bickering, I enjoy it ! )

About twice as long as the F18HT ever existed in the USA. We started before they started and we are still here and growing 3 years after the F18HT blew up.

I guess we F16 sailors will be just another of those 20-year running hypes. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />





Sloop :

The first was springfever 2002, more events followed since then.

Uni :

The Gulfport A-cat/F16 invitationals pre 2006 as that year it was decided to have 1-up and 2-up F16's to race as a single class.


Wouter

Ding,
Remember, it's only a FAD!

BC <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey Bob,

Are you interested in joining the F16's in first in wins racing at the Tradewinds regatta ? The same invitation goes out to that other nacra-17 (F17) listed.

The more souls the merrier. Besides this is your shot at truly trashing some F16's ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter

I will reinforce something Robi said.
I am sick of everyone talking about classes. Unless you live near a BUNCH of other boats the same as you the whole discussion is pointless. Looking at my area where there are certainly a bunch of rock stars there is still no "class" to speak of. The N20s outnumber the other boats but even one of the local rockstars who has been around this sport forever told me that unless you are going to go to nationals, etc for the F18, N20, F16, 17R then there is no such thing as a local class. Who, aside from rock stars, go to nationals anyway? Look at Brian Lambert, certainly a rock star by any standard, who sails a CFR20! WTF?
Look at Curry, another rock star, sails a 17R! And what, there are 2 more in this area? I did a race last year where there were a total of 3 6.0s.
So, unless the state is going to take over cat racing and have some cat sailing dictatorship then pick a boat you like because of how it sails, the size, etc. I am looking at a jav2. Yes, start slinging.. but you know why? Because it is light, simple (anything is simple compared to the 6.0), I can sail it solo, and CHEAP right now. In truth, I race probably less than 20% of the time. This is fine because I have plenty of fun working on the boat and trying to tune things. Besides, not being a rock star myself, the competition around here is a little over my head (ok, way over). The only reason why I continue to even try to race around here is that the other sailors are actually pretty cool guys and don't mind helping the underdogs.

Sorry, I just get sick of my boat better than yours type arguments and when you add "my class has more boats than yours" it gets even worse.

My boat isn't better, it's just mine! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> So tell us more about the Javelin! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sheesh!! Let's get this right, I said

NOT

or is faster than an N20, or any other boat for that matter.

I was reiterating what was told to me by a H20 racer who has been on the Blade with MattM for the benifit of Stuart.

It kind of depends where in the country you are sailing. I moved to FL from an area where you sailed a Hobie or did not race at all (16 or 20, the other Hobie models were treated the same as the other X brands)

When I came to FL it seamed there was at least 1 of every boat made at any given regatta. There was a pretty core group of I20's but they all disbanded to jump on the F18 bandwagon a couple of years ago, other wise it was portsmouth racing. I will not argue the plus and minus of Portsmouth racing again in this tread, but to compete head to head on our H16 with the big boats it had to be blowing 30 plus which is pretty rare in Florida.

When we started looking to upgrade everyone pushed the F18 class as the next great thing, but shy of Nationals there was not realy any more racing locally than anything else. I ended up not going that way due to the weight (both boat and required crew) The F16 fit exactly with what I was wanting in a boat. I now have a boat that is competitve on the water and is a blast to sail. I may not be able to beat the big dogs but that is me as I would most likely not have beaten them even if I was on the same platform.

Sail what works for you. If you want to race and there is handicap racing then your choices are endless, but you can not listen to what people say especially on this forum. Wouter gets pretty wound up about this, but as far as miss-truths go, there is significantly more negative bashing going on than the opposite.

See you on the water

Matt

(Who knows, Tradewinds, we may even be on the big course this year) <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hey guys and girls, at the end of the day its goner be horses for courses, for me personally its all about grin factor. Which boat do I get the grin factor from, well a F16 because I tend to sail it single handed, have to launch it single handed and I have a couple of nippers who ocassionaly come along for the ride.

If on the other hand I was going to be a dedicated racer ( with deep pockets to pay for the yearly upgrades to remain competative ) who had a biggish gorrilla as a mate who was prepared to race every race then it would be probably a F18.

Oh decisions to make and so much blinkered advice ?

Oooops... my bad. Did I get that wrong. So what exactly does it "feels" like it goes upwind like an F18 or N20 mean? Couldn't every multihull make that claim to one degree or another?

I never gave it much thought before, but I've "heard" that the Hobie Wave "feels" like an F16 going upwind.

Okay who let the [censored] adult into this thread! Geesh!

Judging from the caliber of sailors on Waves recently, I'll take that as a compliment!

As a spectator, I'm enjoying the show. Certain situations "feel" about the same no matter what cat--see photo.

I say we drown the creator of this thread.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Oh cummon! What's a little banter just to get the juices flowing for "Tradewinds"! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Oh no, this is great. This could go on 'til eternity. Rather than mucking up legitimate posts, you can say "meet you on the bickering thread" and then just wail away on each other. Better that pay per view boxing. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, it'd be nice if Wouter came, that way he and Ding could arm wrestle to see who the real hombre is.

I didn't say 'untruths' did I? Interesting that you read it that way though. I'd apolgise for not being clear, but it's not my fault that you read it wrong.

The stories are more along the lines of omission. Take for example your story about my performance at the Area D's. I finished sixth at that event, not exactly my finest hour, kinda falls into that 'also ran' status. And yes Matt and Gina sailed a heck of a race, but the other side of that story is that the Jason's (F18) and Kenny and JC (N20) sailed a better series. Significantly better! Between the two teams they took 6 of the 7 bullets. So what does this say about the F16, F18 and N20... I don't know! I'm going to wait for the results of the Alter Cup this spring. Then we'll see if its the boat or if it's the team... my money is on "it's the team".

I hate to spoil all the fun by being rational, but. . .

According to JW, the F16 Dpn may soon drop because of the boats performance (MATT!!). So, it appears that the F16s and F18s are much, much closer than you might suspect. At least two F18 sailors, who shall remain nameless ( after all I wouldn't Ding and BK to get upset with me)have suggested we should all be sailing even up! If I understand it correctly, this is the trend in Europe. But, you'll have to ask Wouter about that!

The point is designers are doing great work across the board, resulting in a very competitive beach cat community.

For the record... Bob Curry made me do it!