| Re: H16 comptip
[Re: CMerrell]
#96140 01/16/07 09:27 AM 01/16/07 09:27 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | Ha, ha. I've heard all sorts of horror stories about the Comptip over the years but causing the boat to turtle is a new one on me. => BS.
Are you sure your local race organizers will insist on a Comptip? The Class Association adopted the new/refit Comptip rule (late '80s) because the Class, at that time, was run by the factory and the factory had legal and good faith needs to demonstrate that they would stamp out the horribly defective product. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (There's still no remedy for defective brains that sail a boat into power lines). In my experience, the Comptip rule has been relaxed over the years at the local level because it is an expense/hassle for entry level racers with 20+ YO boats that provides no benefit. Use the money you would spend on a Comptip on new blocks or line or tiller arm connectors, etc.; something that will actually improve the performance of your boat. I believe relaxing of this racing rule would be in the best interest of the class. How competitive is a 20 plus year old boat going to be anyway? I think it deters newcomers from entering in to class racing. I agree, why spend potentialy half the cost of a used boat on a comp-tip replacement and installation? I know the rules allow a one time (one regatta) exemption, how about requiring a comp-tip for A fleet with no exceptions? ps I'm glad the photo in the 2007 Hobie catalogue has changed to a US H16, with comp-tip!!! It's hard to explain to someone with a 1982 boat why they MUST have a comp-tip if they can whip out a catalogue (that they just recieved at the regatta registration table) and show you a new boat without one ps
Last edited by flatlander18; 01/16/07 09:32 AM.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: CMerrell]
#96141 01/16/07 11:02 AM 01/16/07 11:02 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | Are you sure your local race organizers will insist on a Comptip? The Class Association adopted the new/refit Comptip rule (late '80s) because the Class, at that time, was run by the factory and the factory had legal and good faith needs to demonstrate that they would stamp out the horribly defective product. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (There's still no remedy for defective brains that sail a boat into power lines). In my experience, the Comptip rule has been relaxed over the years at the local level because it is an expense/hassle for entry level racers with 20+ YO boats that provides no benefit. Use the money you would spend on a Comptip on new blocks or line or tiller arm connectors, etc.; something that will actually improve the performance of your boat. So are you saying that the class is no longer obligated to require racers to use a comptip, since the class association separated from the manufacturer? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> That was not my understanding. | | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: mmiller]
#96143 01/16/07 12:15 PM 01/16/07 12:15 PM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | Matt,
I'm talking about the Hobie Sailing Products catalog. Look at last years and this years. Same boat, actually looks like the same exact photo, last years has the solid AL mast with the pronounced round sheave on top. The new one has a flat top.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: mmiller]
#96145 01/16/07 09:09 PM 01/16/07 09:09 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Let's get this straight -
The Comptip was introduced in late 1984 and announced in the Jan/Feb 1985 HOTLINE.
NAHCA came into its own in November of 1988 when Coleman sold Hobie Cat and an NAHCA chairman was elected (Wick Smith) at the first NAHCA AGM in Corpus Christi (16 Nationals).
The rule change requiring Comptips for class racing was proposed by Jeff Alter and approved at the 1989 NAHCA AGM in Chicago.
I was the Division 10 rep at both meetings. The Hobie Cat Company had nothing to do with the rule change, other than supporting it.
Now for more practical matters - the class rule will not be changed or relaxed in the forseeable future. However, it's not the class that will DSQ you from an event, for the class cannot file a protest at a regatta. Only the R/C or your fellow competitors can do that.
For a novice who's just getting started, it would be nasty introduction to the sport be protested for not having a Comptip, but they run that risk, nevertheless. I would consider the chances unlikely, especially in local fleet racing.
However, once they start beating people on the race course, they had better start think about complying with the class rules - the better they do on the race course, the higher the risk of protest.
In A fleet, it goes without saying. That's a competitive crowd. You might get your one exemption, but that's it. Even some B fleets are like that (upstate New York, for example). | | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: mbounds]
#96147 01/17/07 08:53 AM 01/17/07 08:53 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | mbounds,
Thanks for straightening things out.
So we'll address our hate mail to Jeff Alter? I'm kidding!! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
In the present world of reduced numbers of racers, I'd have to define our "local" fleet racing as the closest Hobie sanctioned events. I suppose it may be prudent to inform RC's ahead of time you're planning on showing up with noncomp newbies in tow.
I am vehemently opposed to the agruement that if you've got the money to travel to a regatta, you must have the money for a comp-tip. A lot of sailors start or continue going to regattas solely for the social aspect. I'm particularly interested in seeing more college students or young couples/families attending on limited budgets.
I'd hope everyone to have a realistic attitude.
John H16, H14
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: CMerrell]
#96149 01/17/07 09:43 AM 01/17/07 09:43 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 _flatlander_
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Posts: 1,187 38.912, -95.37 | Maybe the problem becomes more moot at time passes.
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I'd wish this was true, but it always seems there's one rules tote-in "guru" in the bunch. Case in point from last September. We took a newbie boat owner to race at a yacht club regatta with a multi-hull start (handicap scoring, predominately TheMightyHobie18's). This guru engaged the H16 sailor in conversation after the event and informed him if he's planning on more racing in the future he'll "Need to get a comp-tip on that thing!" This poor guy finished dead last, and up to that point had expressed having a good time nonetheless. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
John H16, H14
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: _flatlander_]
#96150 01/17/07 10:58 AM 01/17/07 10:58 AM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 29 syracuae cheech
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Posts: 29 syracuae | I'm with Matt on this one, the first two years I raced on a shoe string, If I broke something at a regatta I was done for the weekend. My boat cost less than a new comptip!
Cheech U-204
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: cheech]
#96151 01/20/07 12:30 PM 01/20/07 12:30 PM |
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 160 North Carolina abbman
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Posts: 160 North Carolina | One of my main questions about the comptip issue is the expense. Does it actually cost 300+ dollars to make a comptip portion of the mast? This is not meant to be a question of criticism, but one of curiosity. Similarly to cheech, the comptip is about half of what I bought my boat for. At the time of purchase I was unaware of the comptip rule, which I take full responsibility of course. I am just curious if Hobie USA is selling them at cost, or if they have been marked up. I feel very strongly about supporting Hobie by purchasing Hobie name brand equipment from local Hobie dealers, but it seems that an effort would be made to make the comptip more affordable to further the sport of Hobie racing. Any clarification would be appreciated. James
James 1983 Hobie 16'
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: mmiller]
#96153 01/22/07 09:20 PM 01/22/07 09:20 PM |
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 160 North Carolina abbman
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Posts: 160 North Carolina | Thank you very much for the quick response. I can completely understand the saftey concern that is associated with the older model mast tips. The 300 dollars does seem like a lot to a guy like myself, sailing on a very limited budget, as well as considering the overall cost of my boat. However, I am very relieved to know that there are considerations in pricing being made for individuals that own an older model boat, which was one of my initial concerns. I would like to begin attending regattas and the discovery that I had bought a boat that would basically be illegal to race was a little saddening. But I'm glad to know that Hobie USA is still supporting this. Plus, I know you guys are offering quality stuff. If I ever get any good at sailing this thing I may look into making her legit. I certainly wouldn't expect any company to cover a retrofit of this expence for all of the boats based on what wasn't a company change initially. I can understand how this could have been an inconvieniece on a number of levels but I agree with the "better safe than sorry" principle. It would be interesting to know what Coleman had to say though. Thanks again. James
James 1983 Hobie 16'
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: abbman]
#96154 01/23/07 12:39 AM 01/23/07 12:39 AM |
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 44 Minnesota hititmaestro
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Posts: 44 Minnesota | How about we have a "non comp-tip only" race for all of us who dont want to pay for the upgrade based on the cost being more than our boats cost? i'll host it you guys bring the beer!
When i was your age Pluto was a planet
Blake Johnson
1973 hobie 16
sail 2663
| | | Re: H16 comptip
[Re: hititmaestro]
#96155 01/23/07 10:34 AM 01/23/07 10:34 AM |
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 160 North Carolina abbman
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Posts: 160 North Carolina | I'm game man. I got a cooler ready and waiting. Just make sure you save me some of that beer for when I come dragging in. Light or dark my friend? (The beer that is)
Maybe we could sponsor retrofits for the winners or winner. James
James 1983 Hobie 16'
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