| Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: sail7seas]
#97839 01/31/07 01:45 PM 01/31/07 01:45 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Attached please find chart 11465 with the viewer's Tot. 8 nm distance. Last year, as crew I rather enjoyed the sail back, and got some helm time. I mountain bike 10 miles, 3-4 times a week and was not tired at all at 2006 OCR, but that was last year. Now at 55 about 2 hours of MTB with an average heart rate of 150 will tire me out, Yeah, when I was out of shape in my 20 & 30's sailing the Tornado would wear me out. Hmmm...that makes 13 miles sound a bit like an exaggeration...
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: mbounds]
#97841 02/01/07 01:58 AM 02/01/07 01:58 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Matt
The voice of experience here is Bundy... when he comments that the sail to and from the race course was long and exhausting, I take him at his word. I doubt he is being a pussy here and he knows what the world standard is for a properly managed event.
The distances involved are just the tip of the ice berg... Do you think the STAR Class is short a few mark boats?
Which of the two regattas OCR or the North Americans works well for the sailors?
Which is a fair test of sailing skill ... which is an endurance slog plus a regatta?
What reason (other then marketing) requires the Tornados to race that particular week when its clear that they don't have enough resources in Miami to host it properly.
About the only thing the Tornados get from participating in the OCR is an international jury for protests...
So compare the resources to some recent events. Did St Francis YC have more or less marks boats with personel on them to support the race for your Hobie 17 NA's? How about the 16 NA's? I doubt they were hunting around for someone who could set the pin for them. If the Hobie Class can organize a competent event, why can't the paid Olympic staff get you the minimal resources to do your job and allow you to to run a competently managed regatta. Do you think you could charter 3 or 4 boats for a week, rent a parking lot and put up a judge and PRO in a hotel room for 12,0000 dollars (40 boats x 300 each).
If playing nice with US Sailing and the Olympic committe worked... solutions would have been found... The US competitors are not exactly able to raise a public stink...
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#97842 02/01/07 06:26 AM 02/01/07 06:26 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 5,558 Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | It is getting a little confusing about whether you guys are talking about the Miami Olympic Classes Regatta last week or the Tornado North Americans this week.
It is my understanding that for the OCR, the Tornado course was the southernmost course, way down by Matheson Hammock. Whereas for the Tornado North Americans, they are up by Dinner Key Marina, which is a LOT closer to Crandon Park. | | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: Mary]
#97843 02/01/07 07:56 PM 02/01/07 07:56 PM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 393 Syracuse,N.Y pbisesi
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 393 Syracuse,N.Y | Is 204 going to have to run the Olympics now? I hope the Tornado guys like Rum.
Mark: The Madcatter costs close to $12,ooo to run last year. The 2004 Nationals was almost $50,000. It ain't easy to do it right.
Pat Bisesi
Fleet 204
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: pbisesi]
#97844 02/01/07 08:24 PM 02/01/07 08:24 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | I agree it aint' easy ... BUT YOU MANAGE TO DO IT RIGHT!
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... again
[Re: arbo06]
#97846 02/01/07 09:23 PM 02/01/07 09:23 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Indeed !
If memory serves.. you were run over on your Hobie 20 in the waters at the top of the bay. Fortunately nobody was injured.
You were not the only sailor run over. One of the Tornado Europeans lost rudders in a hit and run in that spot as well. (and yes... I did politely write the powers that be)
So... take your chances with your life with the yahoos at the top of the bay, no water and a persistent wind shift... or sail back and forth to the bottom of the bay ...
Or... Move the event, move the launch... Solve the problem!
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: mbounds]
#97848 02/02/07 12:57 PM 02/02/07 12:57 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
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Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | Ok - here's the status;
NAs are over and I was able to talk with some sailors and people close to the event. Moving the launch area to Matheson Hammock Park, while attractive, presents other logistcal hurdles that will have to be considered. Nothing I have heard yet is insurmountable, and the primary issues are these:
1) More-experienced and additional staff/boats are needed to support the fleet. One inexperienced boat in addition to the primary boat is below standard. 2) It is essential to get the fleet easy access an official notice board. The on-line option this year failed server-side, and internet access from the launch area is problematic. 3) It is essential to get the SIs to adopt by reference the Tornado Championship Conditions. As a Grade 1 event, all Class rules should have been observed in order to be consistent with other international-level events. 4) It is essential to establish a better logistical relationship between the race area and the launch site. Matheson is an option with some planning and if the City will allow the boats to use grassy areas, but the narrow channel still is a major choke point. Other options need to be explored and planning now, less than a year from the next event, is required.
NONE of these things are impossible - IMO, they aren't even all that difficult to achieve. Let's move forward with reasoned and deliberative resolve. Any participants are welcome to send more feedback - this issue is officially on the agenda for March. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: Chris9]
#97851 02/02/07 02:57 PM 02/02/07 02:57 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider OP
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Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | Thank you John for putting it on the agenda.
Hopefully someone will take action.
(Perhaps my delibertly loud and obnoxious rant will get some action at US Sailing Olynpic.this year ... certainly my previous three years of quiet correspondance have resulted in LESS service and competence.)
And now on to CHRIS..... How about pushing through an icebreaker replacment at the WRCRA Spring Regatta for all of the boats left behind at WRCRA! Haven't I dropped enough hints that this is a win win for all parties. WRSA gets the cash. all of the fleets get to race. Nobody is left sitting home with out a race to play at.
Ball is in your court.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#97852 02/02/07 03:42 PM 02/02/07 03:42 PM |
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 887 Crofton, MD Chris9
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887 Crofton, MD | Can't one of you distract him! Please!
"Oh look, theres an Eagle."
See you tonight dude! Its a good thing that I'm almost of the generation that likes any kind of attention. Good, bad doesn't matter.
To address your ideas directly Mark, join and help make the difference that I agree with you is needed. And buy a Nacra 20 while your at it.
Last edited by Chris9; 02/02/07 03:45 PM.
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: Chris9]
#97853 02/02/07 07:26 PM 02/02/07 07:26 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | Can't one of you distract him! Please!
"Oh look, theres an Eagle."
See you tonight dude! Its a good thing that I'm almost of the generation that likes any kind of attention. Good, bad doesn't matter.
To address your ideas directly Mark, join and help make the difference that I agree with you is needed. And buy a Nacra 20 while your at it. What a classic! Oh look! An EAGLE!
Jake Kohl | | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: John Williams]
#97854 02/04/07 06:21 PM 02/04/07 06:21 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC Tornado
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC | I raced both the OCR & NA's...just got back home (Los Angeles) last night. First internet access in two weeks.
Yes, Crandon park is a long way from course Echo where the OCR races were held. The NA racing was much closer to Crandon Park...about 2-4 miles out, just off of another marina/club along key biscayne (and about two blocks from my rental house for the two weeks!).
I'm surprised to hear a guy like Bundy gets tuckered out from the daily OCR "commute"...I'm in less than top shape, but somehow managed it 5 days in a row (we were the only boat in the fleet to go out to the course (90 min.) on the Tuesday to wait for wind...never came and we just enjoyed the nice 1.5 hour sail home).
Yes, it is a long ride and something better should be provided. With the 44 boats entered this year (result of the Worlds being in Argentina last December), it was a little ridiculous not having decent facilities at Crandon Park (some teams were thinking of protesting the event, as the class rules for grade1 events require showers/changing rooms/food services nearby, boat washdown for more than just two at a time like we had at Crandon.
Not having the official notice board on site was a problem,...a few days we didn't even see the previous day's results until after returning from the race course. This could be a significant issue for teams in close battles to make sure they know who they must cover that day...And when we wanted to get the official results corrected for some scoring errors, we were told to fax or phone the PRO across the bay at the US sailing center.
Sailing to/from Echo each day was made tougher by having to avoid sailing through other courses as outlined in the SI's from the OCR...sometimes the detour would cost you a lot more time/work. On the very wild Day4, we (and many other teams) were so cold and nearing hypothermia, during the return trip we just needed to get back ASAP...and had to cut through a couple of the courses (Star & Windsurfers).
Mike.
Mike Dobbs Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: Tornado]
#97855 02/05/07 04:27 AM 02/05/07 04:27 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203 uk | "I'm in less than top shape, but somehow managed it 5 days in a row"
"were so cold and nearing hypothermia"
Make your mind up! If you were near hypothermia without any support boat you very nearly didn't manage did you!
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: Tornado OCR's... the FUBAR by US Saling... aga
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#97856 02/05/07 02:11 PM 02/05/07 02:11 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC Tornado
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,200 Vancouver, BC | Talking about two different things here...one being tired from the work out of getting to/from the course...the other being caught out by a sudden cold front without the right clothing on. "I'm in less than top shape, but somehow managed it 5 days in a row"
"were so cold and nearing hypothermia"
Make your mind up! If you were near hypothermia without any support boat you very nearly didn't manage did you!
Mike Dobbs Tornado CAN 99 "Full Tilt"
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