| Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: Catfan]
#99618 02/23/07 07:55 AM 02/23/07 07:55 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | I think internationally, the F18 class is careful to not list that information - not like the A-Class where it is frequently listed in the official results. I like the principle behind that; the notion that it is more to do with the sailor than the boat. But if you're trying to see how boats stack up, you might want to first take the professionals out of the picture and see how mere mortals are doing on boats that they bought with their own cash. No offense or slight intended to those who get significant sponsorship and sail for a living - I think that's awsome, and anyone who argues that the pros are doing anything other than elevating the sport are just not seeing the forest for the trees. I tend to place some importance on the position of teams that are self-financed and without coaching programs, etc., because that is where I am. The F18 class is tough - more and more sponsor money is coming in, and more and more people are getting into the class who sail more often than the average weekend warrior can manage.
Anyway, I'm looking at the standings with an eye toward the guys I know have equipment I have access to and can afford. Some of the stuff in the fleet simply isn't available to the average joe because it is so new and is still being developed using top teams that can evaluate the incremental benefits of new sail cuts, materials, hardware, etc.
Again - don't flame me for being honest here. I have a deep sense of respect and gratitude for the people who have managed to turn a hobby into something a lot more serious. Without their involvement, I wouldn't be watching live coverage of an event on the other side of the world. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: John Williams]
#99619 02/23/07 04:38 PM 02/23/07 04:38 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | I think internationally, the F18 class is careful to not list that information - not like the A-Class where it is frequently listed in the official results. I like the principle behind that; the notion that it is more to do with the sailor than the boat. But if you're trying to see how boats stack up, you might want to first take the professionals out of the picture and see how mere mortals are doing on boats that they bought with their own cash. No offense or slight intended to those who get significant sponsorship and sail for a living - I think that's awsome, and anyone who argues that the pros are doing anything other than elevating the sport are just not seeing the forest for the trees. I tend to place some importance on the position of teams that are self-financed and without coaching programs, etc., because that is where I am. The F18 class is tough - more and more sponsor money is coming in, and more and more people are getting into the class who sail more often than the average weekend warrior can manage. Anyway, I'm looking at the standings with an eye toward the guys I know have equipment I have access to and can afford. Some of the stuff in the fleet simply isn't available to the average joe because it is so new and is still being developed using top teams that can evaluate the incremental benefits of new sail cuts, materials, hardware, etc.
I can confirm that Bundock is sailing the same Tiger that everybody else can buy with the exception of the new rudder system (don't know if it is on the market yet or not). His Main, jib and spi are all stock Hobie. The only mods are by means of rope which most people change to their own personal preference anyway. cheers, Tiger Mike | | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: C2 Mike]
#99620 02/23/07 06:07 PM 02/23/07 06:07 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | ...with the exception of the new rudder system (don't know if it is on the market yet or not). Thanks, Mike - it looks like you agree with me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: John Williams]
#99623 02/24/07 04:41 AM 02/24/07 04:41 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia C2 Mike
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 337 Victoria, Australia | ...with the exception of the new rudder system (don't know if it is on the market yet or not). Thanks, Mike - it looks like you agree with me. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Probably - the notion that Aus7 is on anything beyond stock Hobie is rubbish. I did measure 2 spi's for the worlds. One is the current spec Hobie item (as found on boats sold in the last year or so) and one of the previous versions. Not sure which they are using however Glen did say that what is more important that it's easy to set than the spi's raw speed overall. For the record, neither were anywhere close to the limit. The bottom line is that these guys are good - it has nothing to do with having "special equipment". Cheers, Tiger Mike | | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#99624 02/24/07 05:19 AM 02/24/07 05:19 AM |
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,584 +31NL Tony_F18
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584 +31NL | What I think is a more interesting list is who is a PRO sailor and who has a day job or doesn't need the money.. Can someone put that list together? As far as I can tell the first 13 sailors are all Pro's (with a possible exception of Steve Brewin, the Aussies might know). | | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: C2 Mike]
#99628 02/24/07 10:41 AM 02/24/07 10:41 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | The bottom line is that these guys are good - it has nothing to do with having "special equipment". Oi! Mike! I never said anything of the sort - my assertion is that the manufacturers and lofts give this "special equipment" to guys like that because they're good. Who in the back of the fleet can give better assessment of an incremental improvement? Anyway, to make the point again - when looking at how boats stack up at an event like this, I tend to take some guys out of the standings simply because they're pro or near-pro status and are likely to have things on the boat that you wouldn't get stock from a dealer. That's all.
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: John Williams]
#99629 02/24/07 11:21 AM 02/24/07 11:21 AM |
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 2,584 +31NL Tony_F18
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584 +31NL | The bottom line is that these guys are good - it has nothing to do with having "special equipment". Oi! Mike! I never said anything of the sort - my assertion is that the manufacturers and lofts give this "special equipment" to guys like that because they're good. Who in the back of the fleet can give better assessment of an incremental improvement? Anyway, to make the point again - when looking at how boats stack up at an event like this, I tend to take some guys out of the standings simply because they're pro or near-pro status and are likely to have things on the boat that you wouldn't get stock from a dealer. That's all. I'm convinced that Bundy and Booth's cats are standard 2007 of-the-shelf Tigers. I mean, not even an adjustable jib downhaul: | | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: warbird]
#99631 02/25/07 04:09 PM 02/25/07 04:09 PM | Anonymous
Unregistered
| Anonymous
Unregistered | The Tigers were standard 2006 model Hobie Tigers with the Rudder upgrade (and spi hoop upgrade on Mitch's boat) ex-Hobie Cat Australia. The sails are out of the box not "special" sails.
Standard Box-stock Tigers Standard Box-stock Sails
End of story. Steve | | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: ]
#99632 02/25/07 08:12 PM 02/25/07 08:12 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | Shall I schedule your wake-up call, or continue to let you sleep in so you can persist in the obtuse fantasy that I somehow said Bundy and Mitch are fast because they have special gear?
ps - Can you post a link to the catalog with the rudder and snuffer hoop upgrades? Is the rudder upgrade the EPO2 blades or is there something else to it?
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: 2007 F18 Worlds: boats and sails
[Re: John Williams]
#99633 02/25/07 11:41 PM 02/25/07 11:41 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | The rudder upgrade is on new boats. I don't think they've made a retro-fit kit yet. The upgrade uses different gudgeons. Pictures were in the Nov/Dec 06 Hotline, page 10 here | | |
|
0 registered members (),
383
guests, and 73
spiders. | Key: Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod | | Forums26 Topics22,405 Posts267,056 Members8,150 | Most Online2,167 Dec 19th, 2022 | | |