I guess we're talking about two different things - Carl is looking for a base number for he and other home-builds to use when his boat is complete. I'd say the 4.3 numbers are a good jumping-off point. It also seems like you're saying, Bob, that you don't want the modified Hobie 14 to get lowered to the 4.3 number in open Portsmouth racing. I'd be OK with that when there aren't other Formula 14s on the race course. I'd contend that you could run with the 4.3 numbers just fine - I base that on your performance at Spring Fever.

In addition, on the Portsmouth side, I don't think the spinnaker modifier you're taking accounts for the modified Hobie 14 being able to carry the extra sail area upwind as well as down. The spin mod was calculated on downwind only, so you're only getting a half-hit. Work that in and you get closer to the 4.3 number, but they still owe you time.

Am I looking for a number that will make Bob come in second? Of course not - he's got years of experience and more than a thimble-full of talent to back it up. He can take all comers. If we're to get the 14 thing off the ground, though, we need to agree to ask US SAILING for a number and then let the data accumulate, just like anyone else's class. And we'll need to use it or it won't have credibility. Otherwise, we might as well be saying, oh, I dunno, something like "you know, the Formula 18 idea is fine, but there's one that is notably faster than the rest and it should get a seperate Portsmouth number..."