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Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: mattaipan] #105913
05/07/07 04:13 AM
05/07/07 04:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
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Wouter  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Thank you, very much indeed.

Handshake ?

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Wouter] #105914
05/07/07 04:34 AM
05/07/07 04:34 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461
Victoria, Oztralia
mattaipan Offline
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mattaipan  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461
Victoria, Oztralia
My hand is pointing at the screen now.

My Wife has a puzzled look on her face. But anything to do with boats or sailing seems to do that anyway.

Regards


Matt Harper Homebuilt Taipan 4.9 AUS 329 'GOT WOOD' SEEDY PIRATES RACING TEAM
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: mattaipan] #105915
05/07/07 04:35 AM
05/07/07 04:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe



Shaking ! <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Wouter] #105916
05/07/07 05:39 AM
05/07/07 05:39 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
stillbitten Offline
Pooh-Bah
stillbitten  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
All this warmth and humility is making me feel gooey <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />.

After finding out that the "New" main had been passed, I wondered how long it would be before the subject of the Taipan Australia class standard jib being to big would come up. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I had put off bringing it up myself.

In OZ I don't see it being a problem until the numbers of F16 build up, after all the difference in performance is mainly 2 sail reaching I think <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.

Actualy it will be interesting to see if Yachting Vic. change the yardstick for the Taipan, again this would be unlikely as the yardstick people don't seem to have been keeping up with things in recent years. But it is possible that a Taipan sloop with spinnaker adjustment added, could be rated faster than F16 if they moved the Sloop yardstick down any further <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: stillbitten] #105917
05/09/07 04:49 AM
05/09/07 04:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Forget warm and fuzzy, I’ll say it…….

Wouter, you really are unit. Tell me why the Taipan class should change its rules for you and bring the boat up to full F16 spec whilst turning its back on all its current members. It is more than just a main sail. It is a new self tacking jib, spinnaker kit, carbon mast, wider beams, new tramp, new side stays, bridle, fore stay.

The Taipan class does not want a kite. This boat is used by many whom introduce young and new sailors into cat racing who are not comfortable or able to use a spinnaker. It has been a very successful introduction and development class for young sailors whilst also offering high quality racing for all members.

You were obviously not involved in the class in OZ or understand the scene, but where an outsider looking in wishing to change things for their own personal needs….. Very selfish.

I believe AHPC developing a totally new class and leaving the 4.9 class to progress at the rate it’s members wish too is a much better solution for all except for you, because you already had taipan hulls.

Just build a bridge and get over it Wouter. You went to them with an idea and they did not see it was in the best interests of the class, which is well within their rights. You do not have the right to force the Taipan class members into accepting your changes to the class.


Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #105918
05/09/07 05:38 AM
05/09/07 05:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Stephen,

How do you feel about that new Tornado setup ?

What an a$$holes Booth and Bundock were for pushing those changes through against the will of the Tornado class members !

The Tornado class would be so much better of without that Olympic slot and an active European Tornado market. Then all those budget tight backwater sailors could still affort to keep the class active.

And the new carbon mast what is that all about ? Forcing all those class members to buy new masts !

What is the world coming to ? If we are not careful then they will even put spinnakers on hobie 16 's !

ehhh ... ?

But thank God that the Taipan class will stick to the old setup despite all the "heads-up's" pointing in the other direction. I'm so glad the model T-fords held out when the newer models of the competition were launched. They surely showed how to keep an active following alive.


Stephen, I said it years ago and I'll say it again. In todays sailing scene dominated by development and formula setups, staying stagnant equals inviting extinction. If the Australian Taipan class members think THAT to be the best class policy then the best of luck to them. The intermediate result so far is that Taipan class is dead in all regions except Australia. What a fool I am to think that continuing this policy is a dangerous proposition.

How is the Taipan OD sailing in NSW ? Fricking booming right ? Right ?

And whats up with AHPC bringing out a 16 foot competitor to their own Taipan 4.9 design ?

Does anybody else spot the writing on the wall ?

And it is my full right to feel that way and to say that in public forums without asking the approval of the Aussie Taipan sailors or even you.


P.S.

Come to think of it, Maybe you are right afterall Stephen. Since "the boat" has left the dock a long time ago and the full F16's are about to be introduced to Australia itself, there is no point anymore in upgrading the Taipan 4.9 class. The only thing left to aspire to is to survive as a OD class locally in Aus. Either way the Taipan class has left the "game board" altogether and does not factor in anymore in determining what will happen to the cat sailing scene. They are now too small and too localized to factor in. Fighting extinction is now the only thing left.

Now lets shut up about it and yes that includes me as well

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 05/09/07 06:30 AM.
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #105919
05/10/07 05:07 AM
05/10/07 05:07 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
stillbitten Offline
Pooh-Bah
stillbitten  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,632
Gippsland Lakes Victoria Aust...
Hi Stephen,

if you wanted to substitute, Mosquito for Taipan in your post you could be commenting on something that happened some years earlier, it's amazing how history repeats itself. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As far as youth classes, the Mossie will always be a better option for introducing youth to cat sailing, as it doesn't overpower so quickly for light crews. So maybe the Taipan doesn't need to stay spinnaker less, as there is already a class for youth to crew on. Don't forget the Taipan was designed as the Mossie couldn't carry enough weight for Adults to crew. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> How the wheel has turned <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

My point <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />, you can't stop progress, classes wax and wane depending on decisions made by assoc. that don't have crystal balls. Who knows where the Taipans would be around the world if they had decided to make rig changes earlier, I would suggest more popular <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />.


Regards Gary.
Mosquito 1830
All opions expressed in this post are mine and mine alone, no assumptions should be made regarding any Associations or Clubs I may be a member of.
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Wouter] #105920
05/10/07 05:59 AM
05/10/07 05:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461
Victoria, Oztralia
mattaipan Offline
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mattaipan  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461
Victoria, Oztralia
Well that didn't take long, about a day, and your at it again Wouter.

Why am I not surprised.

My hand is doing something else at the screen now, bet you can't guess what.

You do your cause more harm than good, about time you opened your eyes to that.


Matt Harper Homebuilt Taipan 4.9 AUS 329 'GOT WOOD' SEEDY PIRATES RACING TEAM
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: mattaipan] #105921
05/10/07 08:39 AM
05/10/07 08:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Hey, I'm allowed to answer back when another person like Stephen fans the flames.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Wouter] #105922
05/11/07 10:24 AM
05/11/07 10:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Stewart Offline
old hand
Stewart  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 953
Western Australia
Since the "classic" Tiapan 4.9 was grandfathered.. Then I suspect the "upgraded" Tiapan would not be F16 class legal. If we take other precedents in other classes..
It would be up to the T4.9 or a sub group to ask for a review.. Till that time the a upgraded T 4.9 should race with F16 as unofficial...

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: mattaipan] #105923
05/11/07 08:11 PM
05/11/07 08:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 539
taipanfc Offline
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taipanfc  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 539
The way Wouter reacts to many comments that don't agree with his view and browbeats his opinion is really a negative aspect to this forum and class.

One of the reasons I don't bother coming here much (used to be regularly), and that F16 wasn't at the top of my list when I bought a new cat.

Case of lighten up and go sailing.

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: taipanfc] #105924
05/12/07 01:03 AM
05/12/07 01:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
Jalani Offline
veteran
Jalani  Offline
veteran

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,382
Essex, UK
That's a real shame - it should be remembered that Wouter is just an individual who owns an F16. He is a class member and that is all. He has no say in any official capacity within the class and as such his views should be considered as the views of an individual. The F16GC and the NAs will always act in the interests and take on board the views of the majority of the membership.
It would be wrong to condemn/ignore a really great concept and design because of one loose cannon.


John Alani
___________
Stealth F16s GBR527 and GBR538
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Jalani] #105925
05/12/07 02:43 AM
05/12/07 02:43 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
South Australia
Phile Offline
journeyman
Phile  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 88
South Australia
Best not take Wouter too seriously. He obviously enjoys baiting. My guess is that he had a difficult childhood and this has turned him into the pedantic **** that he is today.

Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Phile] #105926
05/12/07 05:04 AM
05/12/07 05:04 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Quote

Best not take Wouter too seriously. He obviously enjoys baiting. My guess is that he had a difficult childhood and this has turned him into the pedantic **** that he is today.



It is not baiting at all.

When you are about to stick your hand in the fire and I yell at you :"don't do it !", then that is not the result of any bad childhood on my part, nor does it mean that I hate you or try to bait you.

I fundamentally disagree with some people about certain aspects because I have some clear and concrete indications that they are on the "wrong" track. Now, indeed, what constitutes "wrong" in the last phrase is subjective and everybody is right to have their own views on it. However, I will argue that things associated with economic feasibility and customer perception are not spread out evenly over the spectrum of all possible opinions. In these fields you can definately "get it wrong" and eventually have to the pay the price for being wrong.

From personal experience and principles of economic feasibility I claim that a certain class is persisting in doing things wrong (in the latter meaning) and that that is not very smart.

I not only claim that but have even shown that to be the case by building up the F16 class and have it grown into a more serious part of the catamaran scene with each passing year, including Australia itself. If you compare the two classes directly you'll certainly see the effects of doing things differently.

Then you come back at this (and me) and claim that I had a bad childhood.

If that makes you feel better personally then I guess it is harmless enough.

If that is an extention of the official policy of your class then ... Ohhh dear !

Wouter

Last edited by Wouter; 05/12/07 05:12 AM.

Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Wouter] #105927
05/12/07 07:58 PM
05/12/07 07:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
Buccaneer Offline
veteran
Buccaneer  Offline
veteran

Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,479
Thailand
This discussion makes me wonder was changing the beam to 250 and adding a self tacking jib a help or hindrance to your F16 class?..... <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Wouter] #105928
05/13/07 01:09 AM
05/13/07 01:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Tornado_ALIVE Offline
Pooh-Bah
Tornado_ALIVE  Offline
Pooh-Bah

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia
Quote

I claim that a certain class is persisting in doing things wrong (in the latter meaning) and that that is not very smart.


Is that wrong in your personal, selfish eyes or in the eyes of the class and its active members?????

Quote
I not only claim that but have even shown that to be the case by building up the F16 class and have it grown into a more serious part of the catamaran scene with each passing year, including Australia itself.


Class has grown into what????? I don't see much of a class in OZ at all, and from what I have heard, it is VERY small off shore too. Perhaps it needs the major manufactures to jump in an kick start the class.

FYI, I don't dislike the F16 class, infact there may be one in my drive way not to far down the track once the class sorts its self out.....


Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: Tornado_ALIVE] #105929
05/13/07 03:44 AM
05/13/07 03:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461
Victoria, Oztralia
mattaipan Offline
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mattaipan  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 461
Victoria, Oztralia
Until the Blade and Viper establish themselves here, the only thing keeping the F16 in Australia is the Taipan and Mosquitos, so to be constantly attacking one of the main veins to the F16, I don't think THAT is very smart or should that be WRONG, not sure.

Earlier in this thread you mention rebranding Wouter, lets step back a bit and have look at what your on, a rebranded Taipan. I noticed early last year when tried all this crap then, the word Taipan was quickly removed your signature.

You state information that is incorrect, such as your knowledge or lack of, in regards to the Taipan hulls being discontinued, acting as though you have a finger in pie of everything that goes on over here, or at AHPC, or Jim Boyer when its obvious at the end of the day, half of what you say is crap.

Everything is fine until someone says something that is not in line with your thinking, then you try and shut them down or put out the old 'your a dumb butt' line. The F12 is certainly taking huge strides - not, and theres only one reason for that.

Again just get over it and yourself.


Matt Harper Homebuilt Taipan 4.9 AUS 329 'GOT WOOD' SEEDY PIRATES RACING TEAM
Re: New Taipan 4.9 class mainsail- F16 issues [Re: mattaipan] #105930
05/13/07 11:56 AM
05/13/07 11:56 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe
Wouter Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Wouter  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe


Whatever guys !

The future will be merciless to one of us and I'm happy to let her be the judge of things.

And that is the end of it from my part.

Wouter


Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
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