| Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: ratherbsailing]
#133260 02/27/08 08:07 PM 02/27/08 08:07 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2,921 Michigan PTP
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Posts: 2,921 Michigan | Maybe I missed something, but aren't the VWM blades F16 an F16 built to F16 specs? and they don't cost 33k or 21k for that mater [/quote] You should put your boat on a set of scales then let all of us no what it weighs then we will see if it's built to specs. [/quote] How close would it have to be to fall under the definition of "to specs?" I have been meaning to weigh mine for a long time. Seriously, I am curious. | | | Re: Hypothetical question?
[Re: Wouter]
#133261 02/27/08 08:21 PM 02/27/08 08:21 PM | Anonymous
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Unregistered | (and we're expecting to add a 4th builder soon) For some reason this comment crossed my mind while I was driving home tonight and I realized I didn't understand it - by my count, we already have 4 builders. Are you leaving someone out? And you know we really want to know who the new builder is! | | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: PTP]
#133262 02/27/08 08:27 PM 02/27/08 08:27 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
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Posts: 1,021 Australia | Maybe I missed something, but aren't the VWM blades F16 an F16 built to F16 specs? and they don't cost 33k or 21k for that mater You should put your boat on a set of scales then let all of us no what it weighs then we will see if it's built to specs. [/quote] How close would it have to be to fall under the definition of "to specs?" I have been meaning to weigh mine for a long time. Seriously, I am curious. [/quote] I would say that the boat has to meet the min weight limits set by the class, in both cat and sloop rig configs. That would be to spec. | | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: ratherbsailing]
#133264 02/27/08 09:29 PM 02/27/08 09:29 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Posts: 322 South Australia | Did anybody notice hypothetical was changed to hypocritical...!!!
I think you will all find that no submissions for rule changes will be proposed at the next AGM as there are no national associations that are fully ratified by the GC.?
With out NA's, submissions would be a waste of time.?
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
| | | Re: Hippopotamus question?
[Re: macca]
#133266 02/27/08 10:01 PM 02/27/08 10:01 PM |
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,479 Thailand Buccaneer
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Posts: 1,479 Thailand | Guys you are still kicking a dead horse. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Why not build your own class and let us know how it goes.. OK? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"House prices have risen by nearly 25 percent over the past two years. Although speculative activity has increased in some areas, at a national level these price increases largely reflect strong economic fundamentals." – Ben Bernanke – 2005
| | | Re: Hippopotamus question?
[Re: Buccaneer]
#133267 02/27/08 10:10 PM 02/27/08 10:10 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Posts: 322 South Australia | No we flogg dead horses....dont kick em.. <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
| | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: macca]
#133270 02/28/08 02:42 AM 02/28/08 02:42 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | Macca,
Now you are rehashing all old discredited arguments again.
Do you know that the current bare F16 platforms are actually LIGHTER then the bare Taipan platforms.
Why ? because the mast section as mainbeam and the small but thickwalled box rearbeam are very heavy for the strength and stiffness they provide. It was a piece of cake to reduced weight on both them and also increase stiffness and strength, without changing the material.
Also the selftacker in plain form is lighter and cheaper then the old Taipan setup. No need for any exotic materials there, just plain common sense.
Similar data is available on many other "problems points" as you call them.
Endlessly repeating the same BS is not making them is any less untruthfull.
We have been done this path many times now and you keep refusing to be convinced by science and verifiable numbers. You keep coming back with argumentation that feels right because you simply gloss over or ignore conflicting data. Just like many people can be made to believe that when they have gotten 3 daughters already that there is a larger chance they'll be getting a son next; which isn't true either.
Simply put, what you say and write is NOT TRUE and have been proven as such in REAL F16 boats and by public comments made by F16 builders like Matt McD. from VWM.
Wouter
Last edited by Wouter; 02/28/08 02:54 AM.
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: Wouter]
#133272 02/28/08 02:47 AM 02/28/08 02:47 AM |
Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 539 taipanfc
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Posts: 539 | Do you know that the current bare F16 platforms are actually LIGHTER then the bare Taipan platforms.
But that wouldn't include the Viper which is a F16 platform. So whose sweeping statement is correct then? | | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: Wouter]
#133273 02/28/08 02:48 AM 02/28/08 02:48 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
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Posts: 1,021 Australia | Do you know that the current bare F16 platforms are actually LIGHTER then the bare Taipan platforms.
Ok, So how many current F16 boats are under min weight? And further, what percentage of the known fleet are under min weight? That should give us some science to work with <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by macca; 02/28/08 02:48 AM.
| | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: Marcus F16]
#133274 02/28/08 02:51 AM 02/28/08 02:51 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | I think you will all find that no submissions for rule changes will be proposed at the next AGM as there are no national associations that are fully ratified by the GC.?
The F16 class rules don't require any NA or any other organisation to be able to submit and complete proposals for rule changes. In fact the F16 class rules don't recognize an AGM in any official manner either. Therefor you reasoning is in error on both accounts. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: taipanfc]
#133275 02/28/08 02:59 AM 02/28/08 02:59 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe | But that wouldn't include the Viper which is a F16 platform.
That is indeed correct. This doesn't include the Viper. It does include all other F16 designs however. AHPC was never even trying to get the Viper down the F16 weight anyway; this pretty much disqualifies the Viper as a counter example. Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: Wouter]
#133276 02/28/08 03:20 AM 02/28/08 03:20 AM |
Joined: Jul 2002 Posts: 539 taipanfc
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Posts: 539 | That is indeed correct. This doesn't include the Viper. It does include all other F16 designs however. AHPC was never even trying to get the Viper down the F16 weight anyway; this pretty much disqualifies the Viper as a counter example.
Wouter
Now that is strange logic. It is marketed as a F16 by AHPC (reference is http://www.ahpc.com.au/m_viper.htm), it is designed to be a F16 (again reference is same link), it measures as a F16, but you have disqualified it from your argument as it doesn't fit to your view as the boat is well above minimum. | | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: taipanfc]
#133277 02/28/08 03:33 AM 02/28/08 03:33 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe Wouter
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Posts: 9,582 North-West Europe |
Maybe we can get the moderator to start a new thread titled :
"The sky is falling and we're all going to be dead soon !"
For the non-F16 member, non F16 owning Aussies to play in ?
With respect to the Viper. By similar reasoning as you just applied we'll conclude that the Viper is its own proof that you can't build the Viper at 125 kg as claimed by AHPC themselves, afterall it was measured at 137 kg at the GC 2007 right ?
If I want to ride the merry-go-round then I'll go to an amusement park; not the F16 forum.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild) The Netherlands
| | | Re: hypocritical question?
[Re: Wouter]
#133279 02/28/08 04:19 AM 02/28/08 04:19 AM |
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK Jalani
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Posts: 1,382 Essex, UK | I think you will all find that no submissions for rule changes will be proposed at the next AGM as there are no national associations that are fully ratified by the GC.?
The F16 class rules don't require any NA or any other organisation to be able to submit and complete proposals for rule changes. In fact the F16 class rules don't recognize an AGM in any official manner either. Therefor you reasoning is in error on both accounts. Wouter But that's because rule changes are not governed by the class rules. Rule changes and class administration are covered (as you well know, Wouter) by the class constitution. The Class Constitution IS the class and when NAs form and join the Class it is the constitution they sign up to. Without a constitution ratified by Member National Associations we don't have a class - we're all just pissing in the wind.
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