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Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: Wouter] #135506
03/14/08 11:46 AM
03/14/08 11:46 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

Carpal Tunnel
Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Without being an expert in english.. Now you sound condescending <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

To be very serious and speaking generally, we all need to think about how we express our opinions and views. As our class grows more and more people comes to the forum. The forum might be the only contact many have with the class. If we want to make our class (and the forum) attractive, we must try not to offend or make our class look like it is filled with buffoons. Condescending, talking down other classes/boats/sailors etc. reflects poorly on ourself.
This is not directed at any post in this thread, but generally speaking.

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Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: tshan] #135507
03/14/08 12:37 PM
03/14/08 12:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
W
waynemarlow Offline
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waynemarlow  Offline
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Posts: 893
Guys have a look at the following video www.Stealth_F16_promo_video_01.wmv on it you can see just about every permutation of spinnaker runs with 2 on the wire, driver on the wire, single handed out on the wire etc. Both skippers have been trapezing under spinnaker for years and are both way faster under nearly all conditons by being out on the wire. Good video guys showing how it can be done and is now the standard for all in the UK <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by waynemarlow; 03/14/08 02:08 PM.
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: waynemarlow] #135508
03/14/08 12:54 PM
03/14/08 12:54 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway
Rolf_Nilsen Offline

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Rolf_Nilsen  Offline

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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,451
West coast of Norway

Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: Wouter] #135509
03/14/08 01:09 PM
03/14/08 01:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
Quote
By the way an alternative is to have the skipper trap out and have the crew with spi sheet sit against the rearbeam. I believe this setup was pioneered by John Casey and John Williams and it worked very well for them.


Totally depends on the conditions - the picture you're basing that upon was a single snapshot of us overstood on the downwind finish. There were times I was on the wire and there were times JC was on the wire - depended upon how much and where we needed the weight to keep the boat under the sails. Mostly, however, as noted several other places, trapping on the F16 on the run did not seem to pay. We enjoyed very deep angles with the boat quite flat for 75% of the runs - this seemed fast.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: John Williams] #135510
03/14/08 03:33 PM
03/14/08 03:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Looking for a Job, I got credi...
I find that when on the wire (up to certain wind strength when things are just happening too quickly) the wire is the place to be.

Two pictures

First pic. Not on the wire. Note how the bow is deeper, but I was crossing a wave; I was further forward. Boat was twitchier.


[Linked Image]

Second pic; same day, same wind but on the wire. Much faster thru the water and much less drama.

[Linked Image]





Attached Files
138202-downhill.jpg (328 downloads)
Last edited by scooby_simon; 03/14/08 03:40 PM.

F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: bobcat] #135511
03/14/08 05:15 PM
03/14/08 05:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote
Quote
Quote
[Linked Image]

What happened to that rule about keeping your main sheeted in tight when under spin? <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

It's easy to talk about someone else but, It looks as if both of them are just running downwind, like with old type spinnakers, not driving as fast as they could. Although if the wind is very strong I'd sometimes do that.


Understood Dermot, but after a previous discussion I had resolved that I needed to overcome the desire to ease the mainsheet while running scared and chicken (deep). Your apparent wind is rotating aft and you are presenting that twisted off roach squarely to the wind (especially after a wave stuff). I was hoping to find out that keeping the main stalled was more effective at reducing the pitching moment.
So travel out yes, ease no.

Just another Northern Sailor.

The remark about the mainsheet was not mine. I just felt that you could have been driving a bit harder - actually the yellow spinnaker is the worst offender. But then I was not there and it was probably blowing harder than it looks. There have been plenty of times when I have been bearing way off and praying to get to the bottom mark without pitchpoling.


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: Dermot] #135512
03/14/08 05:38 PM
03/14/08 05:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
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tback  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
Quote
.... But then I was not there and it was probably blowing harder than it looks. ....


Is it just me, or do photo's not really give a good indication of how large the swells are?


USA 777
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: scooby_simon] #135513
03/14/08 05:39 PM
03/14/08 05:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
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Thomm225  Offline
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Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Nice pictures Simon, but it still goes back to steering. You could have just turned a little lower in that picture where you were onboard and it woulda seemed like a walk in the park. It's not even white capping ..............

Tom

Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: scooby_simon] #135514
03/14/08 05:57 PM
03/14/08 05:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
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Dermot  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote

Second pic; same day, same wind but on the wire. Much faster thru the water and much less drama.

But probably pointing higher ?


Dermot
Catapult 265
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: Thomm225] #135515
03/14/08 05:58 PM
03/14/08 05:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 3,528
Looking for a Job, I got credi...
scooby_simon Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
scooby_simon  Offline
Hull Flying, Snow Sliding....
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Quote
Nice pictures Simon, but it still goes back to steering. You could have just turned a little lower in that picture where you were onboard and it woulda seemed like a walk in the park. It's not even white capping ..............

Tom




But it would be slow.

GPS plots suggest I'm doing about 3-5kts faster on the wire and sailing the same course as the apparent goes forward.

I agree, when it's to windy for wiring it's time to go deeper, but I'm hoping to get to the point when I can wire down wind in most racing conditions.

When I was sailing my Inter 17 (EU Spec) wiring was faster over about 10kts compared to the other 17 I was racing against most weekends until I could not control the boat from the wire.

I think the GC will be interesting as some believe woring is fast, some do not - hopefully we'll get an answer!


Edit to add, wind was light, about 12kts.


F16 - GBR 553 - SOLD

I also talk sport here
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: scooby_simon] #135516
03/14/08 06:08 PM
03/14/08 06:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Thomm225 Offline
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Thomm225  Offline
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Posts: 430
Virginia Beach, VA
Well, it would be a little slower and a little lower .........

It kinda all comes back to the same thing. Balancing it out. Long downwind leg with few jibes, go for it. Shorter course, I'm thinking stay on board. And like the guy said earlier, depends on the conditions. I don't think Midwinters woulda been a good place to try trapping out downwind singlehanded. Actually, that is what I have been basing my whole argument on. You shoulda seen how many times the spinnakers were collapsing on the singlehanded boats.

Tom

Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: Thomm225] #135517
03/14/08 07:07 PM
03/14/08 07:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline OP
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PTP  Offline OP
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Posts: 2,921
Michigan
Quote
I don't think Midwinters woulda been a good place to try trapping out downwind singlehanded.


I agree, not the best time to try it for the first, second, thrid, fourth.. etc time. But if you could control it, big gains could be made. "go high or go home!"
<img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: Dermot] #135518
03/14/08 09:52 PM
03/14/08 09:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
enthusiast
TeamTeets  Offline
enthusiast
T

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
Thanks all for taking the worst sailing form I could muster and post it repeatedly in the forum... That picture is from the last race, and I was beat. Haven't sailed in 7 months... sailed Friday and every race in the series. All I needed for the regatta was a finish.

Let's critique this one instead :-)
[Linked Image]

Attached Files

Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: TeamTeets] #135519
03/14/08 09:55 PM
03/14/08 09:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
tback Offline
veteran
tback  Offline
veteran

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,246
Orlando, FL
Mike,

Nice racing against you (when I actually made the START <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) and enjoyed talking with you at the BBQ dinner. Hopefully, we get more chances to race against each other.

Terry


USA 777
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: tback] #135520
03/14/08 10:25 PM
03/14/08 10:25 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
T
TeamTeets Offline
enthusiast
TeamTeets  Offline
enthusiast
T

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 215
Ohio
Terry, nice racing you too... that wind sure blew the winter cobwebs off for the season. The rest of the year should be easy.


Mike, Ohio
Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
Re: Day two pictures can be seen here ! [Re: TeamTeets] #135521
03/15/08 04:47 AM
03/15/08 04:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Dermot Offline
old hand
Dermot  Offline
old hand

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 915
Dublin, Ireland
Quote
Thanks all for taking the worst sailing form I could muster and post it repeatedly in the forum... That picture is from the last race, and I was beat. Haven't sailed in 7 months... sailed Friday and every race in the series. All I needed for the regatta was a finish.

Sorry about that Mike <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> If the conditions were as bad as everyone is saying, and I was singlehanded, I would have been playing safe and concentrating on getting to the bottom mark upright <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Quote
Let's critique this one instead :-)
[Linked Image]


That's better <img src="http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Dermot
Catapult 265
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